Kimveer Gill’s blog

WELCOME, VAMPIREFREAKS
READ THIS FIRST
:

This is NOT a goth-bashing site. If you’re looking for goth-bashing, take it somewhere else; it ain’t here. I’m sorry to be so pre-emptive about this, but I’m tired of all the morons posting about how I am a Goth-hater; I’m not. I was a Goth before most of you were born, yes, back in the Seventies.

If you don’t want to read what’s here before commenting, you actually want to post somewhere else. If you want to read this and join in the conversation, welcome. If you find I’m abusing you, it’s because you ignored this warning and made an ass of yourself by posting your prejudices in the comments.

Kimveer Gill

Kimveer Gill‘s page  has been taken down from Vampirefreaks.com, but Google still has the cached version, of courseWell, we can find it anyway. But the gallery and the actual blog are still up, although both posts he made after waking up on the 13th are gone.

Looks like it’s time to go mirror-hunting. There, that didn’t take long for the main page; thank you, Miss Dynamite! Gallery here, thanks to Wikipedia. And the googlecache of his blog is here. For now. Note that the two entries from the morning of the 13th after he woke up are gone. One is detailed below, the other basically said nothing memorable other than “Think I’ll see what’s for breakfast. Eggs and toast, yum.”

If you don’t know who Kimveer Gill was, read this backgrounder from the Globe and Mail. That, at least, is still up. May I ask what purpose it serves to take everything else down? After all, his web pages are part of his estate, legally.

Fatality of Mind and Soul

People once believed, that when someone dies, a crow carries their soul to the land of the dead. But sometimes, something so bad happens, that a terrible sadness is carried with it and the soul can’t rest. Then sometimes, just sometimes the crow could bring that soul back to put the wrong things right.

Last entry:

Whiskey in the morning, mmmmmm, mmmmmmmmm, good !! :)

P.S. When i call people “niggah’s” in my journals……it doesn’t have anything to do with their skin color. I call white people niggahs too, it’s just fun.

It’s all dave chappelle’s fault, ever since i started watching the chappelle show, i can’t stop calling people niggahs :(

Mood:No mood :(
Music:Megadeth – A Tout le Monde

And here’s an entry from the day before that really should have been a red flag; the Mounties say they have a unit that patrols sites like this and if they’d seen his journal they wouldn’t have considered what he posted there to be a warning. What do you think it looks like?

FUCK YOU September 12, 2006, 05:00:am
Stop BullyingIt’s not only the bully’s fault you know!!
It’s the teachers and principals fault for turning a blind eye, just cuz it’s not their job. You fuckers are pathetic.
It’s the police’s fault for not doing anything when people conplain (oops, my mistake, the cops are corrupt sons of whores, so it’s not like they can do anything about it.)FUCK THE POLICEIt’s society’s fault for acting like it’s normal for people to be assholes to each other. Society disgusts me.
It’s everyone’s fault for being so apathetic towards fucking everything that doesn’t affect them personally. FUCK YOU SOCIETY.

Mood:FUCK YOU!!
Music:Mudvayne – Happy

Vampirefreaks has posted a message to inform the world that all goths are loveable, sweet people who wouldn’t hurt a fly. Which simply isn’t true. Even Vampirefreaks.com blames this on the mainstream media. While I’m all for people’s freedom of choice when it comes to tribes, c’mon people! Have a steaming hot mug of WTF! Goth can be a very depressed, very violent subculture as well as simply a fashion and music style and pretending it’s nothing like it actually is does no good to anyone.

UPDATED TO Add: In particular, claiming that you’re Goth because you’re such unique individuals and then saying you’re ALL the same (ie nonviolent) is utterly contradictory.

Kimveer Gill was a Goth.

And Kimveer Gill was a suicidally depressed, homicidal and insane man.

So please stop with the we are all unique individuals and we are all completely peaceful rant. Speak for yourself as an individual, and own that; you don’t own anyone else.

Oh, and Gothmetal.org is offline totally until the police are finished with it.

Like Kimveer Gill (Fatality666). Or, for that matter, his friends, including the evocatively-named StabbieRIPStabStab.Tombstone

Note that his likes include:

Night
Darkness
Cold Places
Individuality
My Knife
Blood
Ice Storms
The Crow
Frost
kittens

and that his results on the “How fucked up are you” quiz are:

WAIT THERE. We’re coming to get you now
we’ve called the guys in white coats to come and get you so dont commit a mass murder before they come or you’ll find you’ll be in there longer

Too late.

Is that THE gun? I think so

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251 thoughts on “Kimveer Gill’s blog

  1. Indeed. “You are an individual, unique in the world. Just like everybody else.” The most obvious of these things is how kids take up smoking to be “rebels.” That is SOME marketing genius that sells that horseshit.

  2. You know what your talking about, Vampirefreaks is not the victim here obviously. They failed to stop a tragedy that only people from their website could have stopped. I started a petition online to shut down the site because no one else has so far. I hope it gets supported.

  3. let’s be cool.
    let’s be individual.
    let’s call ourselves goth.
    we’ll show the world that there’s noone like us.
    except the thousands of people that have now become goth, of course.

    and last but not least, lets be [b]original[/b], right, cuz thats what we are right, and commit a mass murder in a school. original? nope. pretty sure it’s similar to the Columbine school shooting a few years ago.

    but thanks for the effort.

  4. Hoe people smoke to rebel…this is one of the bigger pieces of bs I have ever heard. Rebel against what? I am not sure myself, I never understood the extremes of rebellion and comformity. Some things personally are due to influence, some things are unique to me.

  5. Allan, I think you’re wrong. VampireFreaks are mendacious, panicky idiots, but I don’t think their site caused this. Besides, the RCMP have already said they have a team that trolls sites like that for content for flags, and that they’d have looked at Gill’s page and concluded he wasn’t a danger (to which I have to say, have you READ IT? What are you doing with our tax dollars, people? This was an obvious red flag). In any case, if the Mounties had been competent they’d have read that and had a chat with the lad and perhaps removed his license to own restricted weapons like the one he used to kill Anastasia DeSousa.

    I prefer it when someone has an outlet like that. They can share how they feel, and he did. What’s VERY weird, though, is that he also wrote in to a website (Trenchcoat Chronicles) to say that when kids post in their blogs that they’re going to shoot up a school they’re always kidding, every single time. That’s rather like VampireFreak’s insistence that all Goths are peaceable hippies, despite evidence that at least one was a suicidally depressed spree killer.

  6. All tribe members seem to be. Otherwise they wouldn’t fit so well into tribes. Hippies, yuppies, goths, slackers, they’re all just finding a collection of peer pressures they feel more comfortable with.

  7. en toukaa lui on peu dire ki a ce ki veuu.. tlm parle de lui yé rendu célebre apres sa mort !! si c ca ki voulais en toukaa les média lon rendu célebre en ……
    reste ke ya aucun mot ki peu définir ste gothik la.. pi on sais ki a du monde pa mal plus fucké kon pensais pi les gothiks si vou voulez pas paraitre comme lui ben faite de koi de vos viee trouver vou une job pi acheter vou du nouvo linge pi une coupe de teinture pi de scéance au bronzage !! jdi ca pour votre bien ;)

  8. I love how people claim to be individuals, then set out to be weird in the same way so many other people are.

    its called conforming non-conformists

  9. Okay, I’m sure everyone can agree the guy is an idiot for what he did.

    But honestly, you can’t stereotype a whole group (Yes, I mean Goths) as nutjobs just because there is one nut who woke up & said ‘Hey, I’m gonna shoot up a College today!’ (Not saying you did, just saying from things I have read, etc.)

    & I know I had a point when I started typing this but I think I just lost it.

  10. I read, then again I am reading halfway awake so yeah.

    Oh and not saying anyone was saying ‘goths are nutjobs’
    just making the comment that the goth culture shouldnt be blamed because some guy who associated himself with it decided to do something crazy.

  11. Just like I said in the first place. It’s important to treat the websites you visit as individuals if you think people should be treated as individuals. After all, there’s a person behind every website. Why not find somewhere people are harshing on Goths and post there?

  12. Just because people are “goth” doesn’t mean we are trying to be individuals.. most of all.. we are being ourselves. We like what we like.. even if it be dark clothes, dark make-up and pale skin. So what if we like things like that.. Being yourself isnt a bad thing. Some people choose to wear bright colors, and others choose to wear dark clothing..

    Life is made up of descisions..

    and if its such a bad thing to be ourselves.. should we not be given a choice of freedom? a choice to be ourselves.. and express ourselves?

    Some people are so incredibly ignorant.

    Just because Gill was associated with Vampirefreaks, it gives people the right to say ” its the goth’s fault” when its NOT!!!.. as a teenager, and a so called “goth”.. I like my culture, I like the way I dress. and even if vampirefreaks gets shut down.., there is always going to be another website.

    -SaDie

    and my heart goes out to all the victoms, and their family and friends.

  13. Calm down and read the goddamn blog post, please.

    If you don’t want Goths to be characterized as hysterically defensive whiners, then don’t call people anti-Goth bigots when they aren’t.

    I’m sure there are websites where people are blaming this on Gothdom. Find them and post your comments there. Nobody here is listening to you because you’re not talking to us; you are not treating US as individuals, even to the extent of reading what we’ve written. You are assuming we’re anti-Goth when we’re not. Did you even read the part when I said I was a Goth?

  14. Pingback: Disclaiming Kimveer Gill « raincoaster

  15. We know they’re morbid, but just how deadly are goths?

    Writing in his profile on VampireFreaks.com, one goth’s self-description is chilling and disturbingly distant: “His name is Trench. You will come to know him as the Angel of Death.”

    His photos are more chilling still: more than 50 images of Kimveer Gill posing in a black trench coat and combat boots, brandishing a wicked-looking knife or lethal looking semi-automatic rifle.

    On Wednesday, that 25-year-old goth used that same rifle in a murderous lunch-hour rampage in Montreal’s Dawson College. One young woman is dead, two victims hover near death, and another 18 people were shot but are recovering.

    Gill, who used the screen name “fatality666,” updated his journal as recently as two hours before his shooting spree began, a spree that ended, as one of his online journal entries predicted, with him dying in a hail of bullets.

    And Gill is not the first accused killer among the regulars at VampireFreaks.com. One of three teens accused in the brutal after-school murder of a young Toronto boy kept a journal on VampireFreaks, as did Jeremy Allan Steinke, the 23-year old charged with helping his 12-year-old lover slaughter her family in Medicine Hat last year.

    But then there’s Ciba. The Hamilton woman is an avid user of VampireFreaks.com, and her site has portraits of her with her hair dyed deep black and dark red, her lips looking like she’s been licking blood, her body bound by black corset and lace.

    A goth, certainly. A killer? An unstable loner obsessed with death? She laughs at the thought.

    “I’m a mother of almost six kids, I’m due in two weeks — I don’t think about death any more than anyone else, probably less.”

    Most of the people she knows at VampireFreaks.com are no more dangerous than anyone else.

    “They’re just normal people, everyday normal people. Yeah, this one has a mohawk and that one has pierced her face eight times, but they’re normal.”

    She admits happily that she doesn’t “fit in with the soccer-mom crowd” and has never really wanted to — and that’s the appeal of the goth culture.

    “I think it’s about being outside of the lines of society, not being part of the norm.”

    Voltaire, U.S. goth musician and the author of two books on goth culture, agrees.

    “That’s why goth exists, my friend. Goth is a reaction to the fact that we live in a hypocritical culture, that we pretend that nothing bad ever happens, nobody is ever sad … goths take that to the other end of the spectrum.”

    For most goths, the interest is all about music and fashion, a counterculture they can call their own.

    “Ninety-nine per cent of the time that interest is strictly esthetic. Otherwise they wake up, they go to work, they love somebody, they have families, they may even be religious.”

    However, goths’ outsider status and the attention to the macabre tends to attract some “unhinged people,” Voltaire admits.

    “But these are people who are most likely going to harm themselves or someone else anyway, so why do we care that they listen to goth music or have a VampireFreaks profile? Because they’re very easy villains, that’s why.”

    Voltaire said there are thousands upon thousands of murders committed in North America each year, and we never ask what music the killers were listening to.

    “Maybe 90 per cent of the murders were committed by people who listen to polka,” he says.

    Matt Rose, a Hamilton computer technician who also serves as a “site administrator” (a kind of on-line cop) for VampireFreaks.com and uses the screen name “MetalPhreak,” points out that there are over 600,000 users on VampireFreaks.com.

    (A little sadly, he notes that the shooting has driven so many new members to their site yesterday — over 9,000 new sign-ups — it nearly took the site down.)

    “We have more members than Hamilton has citizens. Of course there are good people and bad.

    “It’s not about real vampire stuff, drinking blood or anything. It’s about the music, it’s about dressing up — every day is Halloween here.

    “The members I know in Hamilton are some of the coolest people I know. They’re just silly people.

    “Mr. Gill was obviously someone who needed help.”

    Now..stop blaming VF for the cause.. We did not do it. He was dement. Stop blmaing us! You’re Anti-Goths! And..I nothing more to say to you people.. You sicken me. You judge us for being different, and not your idea of perfect. If those of you are Catholic here, shame on you.. How dare you judge us on out looks? Our music? Whatever… I can’t believe that you would go this far, to blame us for his craziness! HE DID IT MYSELF! NOT US! STOP BLAMING US! HE DID! HE DID! HE DID! HE DID! DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND! HE DID IT! WE DIDN’T!! YOU JUST ARE BLAMING US BECAUSE WE’RE DIFFERENT! WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT!! WHATEVER! ALL OF YOU WILL ROT FOR JUDGING US FOR DIFFERENT! WE ARE ONLY DIFFERENT BECAUSE WE’RE TREATED DIFFERENT! STOP! STOP! STOP! HE DID IT TO HIMSELF! I DON’T SEE YOU GUYS GOING CRAZY ABOUT THE GIRL WHO GOT KILLED FROM MYSPACE; OR THE BOY WHO RAPED BOTH BOYS AND GIRLS FROM MYSPACE!! YOU ONLY BLAME US BECAUSE WE’RE DIFFERENT!! YOU GUYS SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES!! BLAMING PEOPLE FOR DRESSING IN BLACK, OR HAVING A MOHAWK! STOP DOING THIS TO US! HE DID IT! HE DID IT! HE DID IT! HE DID IT! He did it.. Just leave us be…please.. This hurts..when you corner us to the point of break down.. Just stop.. Please… Just leave us Goths alone. We didn’t do anything you to, besides live.. Just leave us, the MainStream, and everyone a lone.. Please..

  16. First of all, if you want to be left alone, get the fuck off my website.

    Second, if you ARE going to be here, read the goddam blog. It’s obvious you’ve decided a priori that we’re goth-bashing here, which is not the case you clueless bigot.

    Third, if you are going to steal an article and post it here, attribute the goddam thing.

    Fourth, I’m perfectly fine with hurting you, asshole.

    Fifth, okay, that’s it. I have LOST PATIENCE WITH MORONIC GOTHS (and moronic Albanians) WHO POST HERE BASED ON THEIR OWN PREJUDICES AGAINST SITES TALKING ABOUT GOTHS.

    READ THE BLOODY BLOG BEFORE COMMENTING!!!! I am a fucking Goth, you gibbering maniac!

  17. I know this doesn’t have anything to do with the arguement going on here, but have the police figured out any other reasons why Gill did this? Just being my curious self :)

  18. They’re not talking, but from the blog and comments by his family, it’s clear he went downhill recently.

    I’m the LAST person on the planet to claim all murderers are mentally ill; I KNOW a murderer, and I think he’s perfectly sane, just terribly evil. But I really do believe that Kimveer Gill was insane. He was also probably drunk when he did it; it’s obvious he was an alcoholic.

    Who knows, I may get a bottle of Jack Daniels and a bottle of Coke and have a strange, drunken version of a seance with his favorite tipple. This is just going to get stranger before it gets more normal.

  19. After much reading…my guess is he was insignificant and meaningless on this planet, in life. He found the worst way to be significant and meaningful, in his eyes anyway. lets hope there arent too many similar pathetic souls out there that need to resort to this. As for sanity…I think we’re all insane. Some more than others. Some weaker than others. my sympathy goes to the twat’s family.

  20. My sympathy goes to the victim’s family. The murderer’s family were enablers; there are no reports of them asking him to seek the psychiatric help he so obviously needed.

  21. Okay, I’ve taken some logic courses and I’d like to analyze your argument.

    “Kimveer Gill was a Goth.”
    Okay, true premise. I do believe he called himself a Goth.

    “And Kimveer Gill was a suicidally depressed, homicidal and insane man.”
    I agree with the first two; I don’t think insanity can be objectively judged per se, but for argument’s sake I’ll let this go.

    I don’t think you’ll object to me writing your implied conclusion as
    “Therefore, the Goth subculture tends towards violence, depression and suicide/homicide.” If this isn’t what you meant, please clarify, because I’ve clearly misinterpereted your point.

    To sum up:
    1) K.G. was a Goth.
    2) K.G. was suicidally depressed, homicidal, insane, and male.
    .: 3) Goths tend to be violent, depressed, and suicidal/homicidal.

    This looks to me like a textbook example of an invalid argument. For lack of a better example, this is comparable to arguing that because the Columbine massacre occurred during the month of April and that the Columbine massacre was a school shooting, all school shootings occur in April. In my humble opinion, anyone who can’t see why this is poor reasoning should be culled from the breeding population of humans. The Columbine/April argument and the K.G./Goth argument are wrong on exactly the same terms – you can’t draw a conclusion about a large group from only one example. In fact, the only conclusion that could be drawn from the above argument is that there exists at least one Goth who is violent, depressed, and suicidal/homicidal (and male).

    That’s about all I have to say.

  22. Congratulations on taking your courses in logic; how did you do in them? I’m guessing not as well as me.

    Kimveer Gill was also a Sikh. Does that mean all Sikhs tend to be violent, depressed, and suicidal/homicidal?

    Kimveer Gill was a man. Does that mean all men tend to be violent, depressed, and suicidal/homicidal?

    Kimveer Gill was a Quebecois who was over six feet tall. Does that mean that all Quebecois over six feet tall tend to be violent, depressed, and suicidal/homicidal?

    Your mistake is a classic, and one which certainly should have resulted in a failing grade, had this been a classroom. Please look up cum hoc ergo propter hoc, which you can find here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cum_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc

    In short, yes, I do indeed object to your writing my implied conclusion as
    “Therefore, the Goth subculture tends towards violence, depression and suicide/homicide.” That is not at all what I meant, and I am happy to clarify because you have, as you suggested, clearly misinterpereted my point.

  23. first i give my condolence to the family of anastasia de sousa. it certainly was a thoughtless act wich successfully ended the life of a unique human bieng. when these things happen, many people seem to have one question. who’s to blame? whos fault is it that someone’s child is dead? thinking on this, i remembered a somewhat popular song by the artist jack johnson; (a musician who most likely doesn’t appeal to those in the the goth culture but its good anyway) the song’s called cookie jar, and it directly relates to gun violence and ponderes the question of blame while using a rather cynical twist. some of the lyrics are as follows,

    Well it wasn’t me says the boy with the gun
    sure i pulled the trigger but it needed to be done
    because life’s been killin’ me ever since it begun
    you cant blame me cause i’m too young

    You cant blame me, sure the killer was my son
    but I didn’t teach him to pull the trigger of the gun
    It’s the killing on his TV screen
    You can’t blame me, it’s those images he sees

    Well, You can’t blame me says the media man
    Well I wasn’t the one that came up with the plan
    and I just point my camera what the people wanna see
    man it’s a two way mirror and you can’t blame me

    - while i think this is a good thing to ponder, there’s another i have to say. i think it all comes down to choice. some people have it bad, some people lead fairly easy lives. its all relative, and we have to play the cards that get dealt to us.

  24. Two of your comment-ors seem to be posting in the most illiterate French I’ve ever seen — spelt phonetically (fonetikali). Is that how people are texting in Quebec? Or is it fashionable to spell every word wrong? Or are they Anglo kids who speak French but have never actually learned to write it? Or…?

    Weird.

    As are your various goth visitors who don’t seem to be able to read simple declarative sentences.

  25. Not all Goths are clueless; did you know I was Goth back in the day? But if you head over to VF you’ll find it’s filled with kids quite a lot of whom are preoccupied with feelings of exclusion and persecution.

    Anyone is welcome here as long as they’re open-minded and treat me with respect. Otherwise, they’re roadkill and deservedly so.

    And yeah, the Kebektxt vernacular is a puzzler, ain’t it?

  26. That guy was seriouslly fucked up. Pathetic even when murdering trying to be ‘special’ for once (just look at the photos he took for himself with raincoat, rifle… and socks :P

  27. Au nom de tout ceux qui était là ce jour-là……..

    T’ÉTAIS MIEUX DE TE CREVER TOI-MÊME ESTI D’ÉPAIS!!!
    La pire gaffe que ta mère a faite c’était de te mettre au monde!!!
    Merci pour le défoulement et repose en paix chère Anastasia.

    G.L

  28. Je tiens a donner au nom du centre, mes plus sincere condoléance a la famille d’Anastasia qui nas eu la vie écourté par un psychopate. Mais le pire dans tout cela, comment cela se fait que personne ne la vue venir????

    Je vous promet, de travailler tres fort avec toute mon équipe, afin de ne plus donner la chance a d’autre comme cette bombe a retardement ou tout autre fou de ce genre, de s’en prendre a des personnes innocente afin de justifié leurs geste incompréhensible.

    Compté sur notre vigilance et nous avons besoin de votre appuis sur
    http://www.lecsw.cjb.net

    Repose en paix Anastasia xxx

    Kimveer, reste éveillé pour l’éternité…….aucun repos pour toi…..

    Claude Pigeon (fondateur du C.S.W.) et conjointe Christiane Collin

  29. moi je les vu son site a ce trou de cul `là mon amie a reussi a avoir un site craké et on l’a pogner avatn que les poilicer ne l’enelve. et laiser moi vous dire que il ny a aucun respect a avoir pour cet merde de kimveer gill.aucune pitié. je dit toutes mes condoléances a la famille de la belle princesse anastacia.elle a payer pour un fou..c dommage que personne n’est reagit avant.mais cesser de blâmer les gothiques. mon frere en ecoute du megadeth et tout ces groupes là…et il est loin d’etre cingler.ce agrs aurait pu etre medecin,avocat…ca l’aurait pu etre votre voisin.la musique ne l’a pas rendu fou…il l’est devenu et personne ne s’en ai rendu compte.si les policier allais un peu plus sur les blogs ils s’apercevrait que des malades comme kimveer kill,il y en a plusieurs.aller vous attendre qu.il se passe encore des évenement aussi tragique que celui à dawson avant de reagir.cesser de fermer les yeux…on vit dans un monde où la violence règne.il merite sa mort…aucune pitié.souffre esti de sale.

  30. Saying all goths are violent and have criminal minds due to the events of one or a few people who at one point were somewhat part of the sub-culture is completly ignorant. I mention this to the person who wrote this page. You claim this is not a bashing page yet you bash yourself.
    Aside from that fact……blaming an culture or subcluture for the actions of a few is as bad as labelling all MUSLIMS as TERRORISTS or BLACKS(African-Americans) as GANG-BANGERS(etc.) Or the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES is a GOOD PERSON because previous presidents were.
    Like Chris Rock said….what ever happened to ‘crazy’. The idiot was just plain crazy.
    He also had pathetic grammar skills. The school should be blamed for that. LOL.

    Sympathy to the victims’ families.
    Jasin.

  31. Your second comment is valid, your first is not. You obviously either didn’t read or didn’t understand the READ ME at the very top of the page, nor the contents of the post.

    No-one here, repeat, no-one here has claimed all Goths are violent. You are fighting with figments of your imagination, so be careful who you call crazy.

  32. Kimveer wasnt a goth, he was a coward.

    Gill was 25.
    He was a “man”.
    Men don’t let sites influence thier choices.
    and if he did, he was pretty pathetic.

    I’ll be damned if i let a site influence my life choices.

  33. Gill was indeed a Goth. There are brave Goths and cowardly Goths, peaceful ones and violent ones; Goths are human.

    He was many other things besides Goth, including homicidal. I don’t think the site influenced his important life choices, just the superficial things that gave him a sense of identity, like the trenchcoat, the shades, etc. The murder came out of his mental illness (and again I say that I’m the last person to say all killers are mentally ill; they’re not. But Gill obviously was, read the blog)

  34. I cannot blame goths, sikhs, men, people who wear trenchcoats or big boots for that matter. We are who we are . He happened to be a goth and it is unfortunate that rain is going to come down hard now on people who are goth because of Kimveer “NUTJOB” Gill. One night late, my granddad was at his car when two men in goth came up to him and right away he got nervous. One said to him ” Sir , I think you might have dropped your wallet a few steps back.” The second handed it to him and both men refused a reward and simply said it was a pleasure to help him and walked away. The truth is, we are a nation of worried individuals and we so desperately are looking for someone to blame. Who kills? Everyone does , every race, every group no one is excluded. An event like this gets the world in panic and when we panic we needo to blame. I think as a society we should look at some things we missed with kimveer.
    One his family, friends, etc a man who had that kind of weapons in the home of course could be considered a hobby. A strange hobby that I think as a mom I would question but none the less I would have been more involved. What I think was a problem was the ammo.. He no doubt had a lot and I think that would have made me worry. Secondly. he was obviously depressed and someone missed the signs here and I think that we just need to look at everyone who shows kimveer attributes in a more alert light from this moment on. We also need stricter gun laws and less people slipping through the cracks .
    My cousin was one of those affected by this incident. The hours it took to find out he was alive felt like years . But now is a time to come together a a world and find a solution. We all want the same thing here, so rather then point fingers we should be united in finding an acceptable plan to help the world from things like this happening again. Kimveer Gill deserves no more speeches from us. HIs motives are yet unknown but this SOB did something horrible he does not deserve our attention for one more minute.
    Let us now work to find a solution .
    RIP Victim and Healing to the wounded Phsyically and Mentally.

  35. I strongly agree with most of your post, and thank you for sharing your thoughts. We are all supporting the victims and their families however we can. If you could give us some specifics, it would be a great help; is there a DeSousa memorial fund, for example? Or a counselling fund for the students? I know that people would like to do something, but are unsure what or how.

    I don’t think, however, that examining a murderer is the same as rewarding him. If you read the blog it seems clear that he didn’t seek fame. He wouldn’t be happy with the fact that people are picking him apart now; he’d feel tortured.

    Neither the idea that he’d like it nor the idea that he’d hate it are valid reasons for looking at this or turning away. Kimveer Gill’s feelings do not matter now.

    It’s important to keep an eye on your enemies; and as someone wise said, those who will not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. We have to look at this and, as you said so well, try to find the root causes, recognize the symptoms, and hopefully use this horrible catalyst as a tool to build a new and better understanding among all people, Goths, mundanes, or whatever.

  36. gill was my friend on vf we talked for a while well as much as you can through wrighting
    but just letting the public know that he was not crazy and he was very comforting when i was in truble
    thank you for not using his name in loose terms

  37. I can see that he cared a lot about the people he met on VF. I hope you’re doing okay; this has to have been hard on you too.

    I do think your friend was mentally ill and needed professional help. His blog shows that he was hurting in an unhealthy way, and that it was getting worse. It’s amazing that he was able, in all his pain, to help his friends.

    Depression kills more people than any other mental illness; it’s even more terrible that it led Gill to kill someone else as well as himself. I wish he’d gotten the help he needed.

  38. We’re all searching for clues to the ticking time bomb that Kimveer Gill obviously was. Amazingly, there is so much information contained on his sight that should have motivated someone, possibly within the VF site itself, to call special attention to this deeply troubled individual. Yet, like the Columbine shooters and the others who have followed in their wake, Kimveer managed to slip under our collective radar despite numerous web pages filled with anti-social rants and other warnings.

    The evidence is right here: “Likes … Reb and V (True Modern Saints).”

    Kimveer’s self-admitted gun fixation, his obsession with all things violent, his increasingly tenuous grasp of reality, his idol worship of the Columbine shooters Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the list goes on. Yet, like the parents of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, Kimveer’s mother also describes him as a “nice boy.”

    You’ve essentially nailed it, though. The Goth identify was really just a safe-harbor for an obviously messed-up individual. His final act had nothing to do with the Goth community nor those associated with it. Remember, the BTK Killer was a church-going Lutheran.

  39. Here’s an interesting question:
    Why is it that the media (along with many individuals) is focusing on the possibility the being “Goth” or being a part of vampirefreaks.com was a main causeof Kimveer’s actions. What about his parents? We hear on occasion that the Gill family’s childern never played with other children in the neighborhood, were rarely ever seen in public and no one on their street knows anything about them despite the fact that they had lived there for sixteen years. That is what seems very odd to me.

  40. I skimmed read all the comments
    and i think most of you are wrong.
    For the people that say that vampirfreaks.com are saying goths are harmless.
    Vampirefreaks.com have not said that everyone on there are harmless.
    No-one cant be harmless, its in our nature.

    and for those of you that say that Vampirefreaks.com should of done something to stop this tradgedy.

    I personally have read Kimveer’s profile and most of his blogs. You could not see that he was going to do what he was going to do. He had no plans of a conspiracy. Or of shooting people in schools. Only on the website mentioned on raincoasters entry on hidden messages in his blog. And most profiles on vampirefreaks.com are alike apart from the fact he wanted to “die in a hail of gunfire”.

    And to raincoster. You say you were a goth before we were born. Doesnt make a difference, because c’mon in the seventies! its 2006 now. Of course the gothic culture would of changed. 0_0

    anyway i like your site. your doing a good job apart from the goth-bashing. yes i think its plainly goth-bashing.

    so im going to argue with you about this
    “Vampirefreaks has posted a message to inform the world that all goths are loveable, sweet people who wouldn’t hurt a fly. Which simply isn’t true. Even Vampirefreaks.com blames this on the mainstream media. While I’m all for people’s freedom of choice when it comes to tribes, c’mon people! Have a steaming hot mug of WTF! Goth can be a very depressed, very violent subculture as well as simply a fashion and music style and pretending it’s nothing like it actually is does no good to anyone.

    UPDATED TO Add: In particular, claiming that you’re Goth because you’re such unique individuals and then saying you’re ALL the same (ie nonviolent) is utterly contradictory.”

    We are individuals everyone of us. No-one is ever the same. We are moulded into a community because of friends and our surroundings meaning that the process of the moulding would of been different. Meaning that they would have the same beliefs but to a limit.
    i.e.
    Christian Goths and Anit-Christian goths.
    Living Life Goths and life hating goths.

    your just looking at the cover of the gothic culture and not reading the rest.

    you say you were a goth but that was then. i think it surely would of changed.

  41. Glad 1 less goth moron in the world……too bad he had to inures others. My sympathy’s go out to all of the victims, family, friends & anyone else affected by this.

    -Carm

  42. eye le big ta du gotz en criss
    chu daccord aik toi si y fallait vrmt ke tu le fasse bin la tu la fait tu px ten venter mm si té mort hahahahahahahaha

  43. It’s not VampireFreak Fault!
    It’s not Goths fault!
    It’s not Dawson students fault!

    It’s just one individual freak fault! I hope he will burn in hell

  44. As a side note, I would like to point out that most of the french contributions so far have been made with the worse french spelling and grammar, obviously by people who can’t even spell their own name properly.

    Sad sad sad.
    [quote]
    #
    EmoGinOaliasDr.Dré said,

    September 16, 2006 at 11:01 pm

    Calice qui fo etre epais pr faire sa….Fov rmt etre derangé mentalment…Tué du monde de mm..Sti D’clown..Bon jvo marreter la si jveux pas qune gang de ghotique arsoude cha nous !

    EMO4VER
    #
    Une chèvree said,

    September 16, 2006 at 11:47 pm

    en toukaa lui on peu dire ki a ce ki veuu.. tlm parle de lui yé rendu célebre apres sa mort !! si c ca ki voulais en toukaa les média lon rendu célebre en ……
    reste ke ya aucun mot ki peu définir ste gothik la.. pi on sais ki a du monde pa mal plus fucké kon pensais pi les gothiks si vou voulez pas paraitre comme lui ben faite de koi de vos viee trouver vou une job pi acheter vou du nouvo linge pi une coupe de teinture pi de scéance au bronzage !! jdi ca pour votre bien ;)[/quote]

    SVP les Québécois, rendez service à la communauté et retournez à l’école, hhhm?
    Parce que là ça frise la débilité profonde, mon fils de 8 ans écrit mieux que ça.

  45. Don’t take away my ability to generalize! I can’t understand anything if you do that!

    No, sarcasm aside, that is a terrible tragedy and thanks for pointing out that someone murderously over the edge is just that regardless of clothing or musical tastes.

    I’m vaguely reminded of the part in Bowling for Columbine in which Michael Moore talks with Marilyn Manson about the convictions of some leaders in the Columbine community and around America that it was the music of Manson and others like him which drove those kids to kill. Moore asked (paraphrased) “What would you say to the kids left behind at Columbine, if they were here right now, about your music and its message?”

    Manson said “You know what, I wouldn’t say a g.d. thing. I would ask them what they have to say, because that’s what no one ever did.”

  46. Asti Spumante!

    I wonder if English texting is as incomprehensible to non-English speakers as the French netspeak is to me (Quebec French as a second language). Some of the phonetic abbreviations are great, though, Sti!

    Clearly he saw something in being Goth that resonated with something he felt inside. Wonder what that was?

    Is there some alternate reality where he joined alt.knitting and just finished an afghan rug several miles long on a side? Or is there one where several Dawson students were impaled on knitting needles?

    Why do you never hear of a Japanese chick in a pink wig and Hello Kitty sneaks taking out a shopping mall? Just a random question.

  47. oui kimver était fou ….
    mais c vous qui lavez rendu fou ….
    a force de sfaire regeter de la société ben il c’est enfermé ds son sou-sol pis ya viré fou … toutes mes condoléances aux parents d’anastasia et aux parents de kimver qui on pour fils un criminel et en plus il est décédé c’est un lourd fardeau pour eux aussi … en plus tout les medias qui von jusqua suivre leur livreur de pizza sérieusement ILS SONT EN DEUILS VOYON!!!pis en passant (je suis en aucun cas gothike) les gothiques nont aucun rapport la dedans et la musique non plus !!!! donc trouvez pas plein dexcuses pour en faire un drame

  48. My, what a lot of defensiveness. Who are you, who is anyone, to tell anyone else they can or can’t be a Goth?

    My apologies go out to the people who’ve clearly given this some thought and put work into their comments here; understand that, regardless of the overgeneralizations of the few, your contributions are being read, appreciated, and pondered.

    Yes, VampireFreaks were defensive and overgeneralized and claimed all Goths were peaceful; they’ve since backed down. Yes, the world has changed since the seventies. And no, that doesn’t invalidate any of what I said, it only points you, Nadine, out as an anti-oldGoth snob. Which really doesn’t help your “Goth is a big, open tent” argument one bit.

    You, Nadine, are goth-bashing. Stop.

    Manson is and always has been a very smart boy. I have a lot of respect for that guy, besides liking his music (not as good as NIN, though).

  49. For all of you idiots out there who feel like you’re on of a kind, and you want to stand out, you’re not. Get over it, live life like everyone else does, and stop seeking attention.

    RIP Victim’s of this attention seeking child
    And burn in hell Kimveer

  50. Pingback: Kanadski manijak « o nekim stvarima govoreći

  51. Nadine, most goths ARE harmless.
    people are so under educated about them, its scary.

    Gothic people are just as harmless as say, a 4 year old girl.
    yeah, we might have some bad seeds in our culture, but so does every other culture.

  52. Again, let’s not overgeneralize. You’re right, most Goths are harmless. But to go on and say they’re all as harmless as a 4 year old girl is wrong. Some are, some aren’t. Lets respect the individuality of all Goths and agree that there are good and bad ones. What they have in common is the fashion, music, and other cultural markers, not their fundamental characters. Most Goths are harmless because most humans are, and Goths are human.

  53. Did you ever think that maybe he’s a political activist? I thought the news said Canada is debating lightening up on gun control. Maybe Gill did the shooting to make sure they don’t lighten up on gun control.

  54. No, he didn’t. He had no problem with the gun control laws and all his weapons were properly registered. And he never said anything about the registration being too harsh. This was not an issue for him.

    If you check his blog entries you’ll see that he was not political at all.

  55. Pingback: Dawson Shooting: My Conclusions « Louis’ Blog

  56. Not all goths are the same! Not everyone on vampirefreaks is the same! Don’t stereotype the goths! There are those who agree with what he did and his cause! There are limits to how much some1 can take!

    what exactly did he do? He stereotyped the cops, the preps, the jocks, the teachers, society and everyone in it and tried to eliminate as many as he could.

    pretty hypocritical of him and any1 that supports his “cause” if u ask me.

  57. Bk, you’re right. Fortunately we’re not seeing a lot of Goth stereotyping here; even the Mainstream Media looks at that angle and says ‘nope, that wasn’t it,’ thank God.

    Check the links, frisky. The blogs are out there.

  58. A girl is dead, and there are still some fucking morons trying to put the murderer on a pedastol.

    No i don’t think all goths are murderous, but they are definately whacko, mind you the only goths i see are crackheads panhandling by atwater metro, maybe dawson was a target because it was in the vacinity of their panhandling operations. I wonder how long kimveer was panhandling so that he could buy that expensive berreta.

    No i don’t think the pages he’s visited should be held liable, there are alot of retards out there looking for attention, maybe the mods thought he was one.

    I wish seriously i do, that i had gone to visit a friend at dawson that day, maybe i would have gotten shot myself. Maybe i would have tossed his sorry gothic ass off the second floor, and while he was lying in agony from the fall i could have shot him in the balls. Why the fuck not eh? to shoot up a school full of innocent kids you got no balls anyways!

    Is that a common thing amongst goth males? are they all ball-less eunuchs with nothing better to do.

    Note that i am insulting him strictly because he is a goth, not because he is indian. (indian people are kool except for kim he was a cockmite) Most school shootings are perpetrated by cracked out white kids, in this case kimveer is an anomoly. However the typical goth is a cracked out white kid, so wtf it fits for me. I go to vanier it hit home pretty good through that alone, and the fact that i know the dead girls cousin makes it worse. So yeah my thoughts are as follows, kimveer should have lived, only to spend his life in jail, being bubbas bitch would have been a far more suiting fate for that coward. but like all goths kim was a pussy and took the cowards way out, the asshole shot himself in the head. He killed a beautifull young girl for absolutely nothing. The gothic subculture is a cancer on an already ill society.

    I wish i could’ve taken anastasias place at the wrong end of that goth madmans gun, should that have been an option. Or better yet tossed him the beating of a lifetime, then forked the fucker over to the cops so that he could rot in the pen for all his days.

    As to the retard who posted here from vf, you can suck my fucking knob you stupid fucking jet black haired leather clad moron, it’s people like you and that gill moron that make us think poorly of your subculture, currupt bunch of drug addicted bums who do nothing for this comunity, country or any other. Parasites. Leaching money from us with their welfare and panhandling, and more so leaching from us the life of an innocent girl.

  59. Gill didn’t panhandle; he was on Unemployment Insurance. Take your bigoted, narrowminded yawpings somewhere else. You contribute nothing to this debate but hot air and prejudice.

    And you go to Vanier? Keep going; you have a lot of work to do on your English.

  60. I re-read your disclaimer and take back my comment about YOU bashing…in my pervious comment # 48.
    Your comment at the end of this paragraph:
    Vampirefreaks has posted a message to inform the world that all goths are loveable, sweet people who wouldn’t hurt a fly. Which simply isn’t true. Even Vampirefreaks.com blames this on the mainstream media. While I’m all for people’s freedom of choice when it comes to tribes, c’mon people! Have a steaming hot mug of WTF! Goth can be a very depressed, very violent subculture as well as simply a fashion and music style and pretending it’s nothing like it actually is does no good to anyone.

    ….Is what triggered it. After re-reading it I understand where you were coming from with it.
    I stand behind everything else I said.
    This is a good place to vent as too many close-minded people have done I see. This kind of closemindedness can be as dangerous as turning a blind eye to warning signs.

    Jasin.

  61. Thanks, Jasin. You’re right that a lot of people have used this spot to vent, both pro- and anti-Goth, and neither really have a place here or anywhere in a thoughtful forum. We’re all just coming together to try to understand what happened and, hopefully, to prevent another occurance.

  62. people do you not realise that us goths anr no differnt then you?
    shore we wear black and are at times Anti social but that is only because we are pushed by the remaining public to be constantly defending our right to dress and act they say we want. Some times we just give up and don’t bother explaining our selves to you pig headed people who prefer us to become mindless cheerleaders.

    And why may I ask if a “normal” person lashes out it is tragic and sad but if one of my people lashes out it is obvious that we are mad and should all be shut away in institutions. Shore we are violent and some of us are depressed but the only reason we are noticed because our presence makes people uncomfortable. the rest of the public commits more horrific crime then us. I advise you to “dress up” put on some black and find out for your selves that just because we decide to look a certain whey we are automatically violent and evil.

    We do not look like this to be individual we know there are lots of people the same as us. We look and dress this way because we want to .I am comfortable being me. I am proud to say gill was my friend because he was human and he was a goth.

  63. Putting on black is no different than putting on calico Laura Ashley prints. They’re all uniforms of a type. And people look like that because that’s what they like.

    I think you put it well, katie. It’s an aesthetic choice for most Goths, not one picked because it’ll alienate people. There are some Goths who choose the emblems to differentiate themselves from the people around them, but I personally think that’s just being reactive on their part. They are letting the people around them determine who they become, in a sense; either the same, or the opposite of what they were raised with. We should respect people who choose it because they know they have freedom of choice and they’ve exercised it.

  64. Gothic, is a music, not a lifestyle!!

    Gothic is a music not a fashion!!

    black is black!

    guns are guns!

    everyone wears black and many own guns, doesnt mean they are goth!

    This person was a person! Kimveer was a person bullied by the “norm” of society. Gothic people don’t claim to be “individualistic”. if you have never considered yourself gothic, then don’t talk. You don’t know.

    Im sick of goth bashing. It needs to be done with already! Get a life! and realize that we are all human, including people with gothic likings.

    Feeling something is a beautiful thing, and gothic music explores that pain. Some people can’t handle it and Kimveer was one of those people. So stop bashing him. He made the biggest mistake of his life, and all people can say is gothic people are wrong and the gothic lifestyle is wrong?! LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE!! its YOU people! its everyone else! dont you see! its the majority that are the fuck ups! not kimveer, you! Im not saying Kimveer was right for shooting all those people and killing one, but I do understand that he was human, and he had feelings too. Look at the other side of Kimveer everyone who knew him personally saw, not the part the media shows you. Look into his eyes in the first picture on this page…Cry for him. Cry for Anastasia, for nobody said anything to him or helped him…blame the world, not kimveer…

  65. Ok this is to all the kids out there who think no one understands them, and think “Life is not fair” – GET OVER IT. Life is NOT fair, but you deal, you over come it. Why is it all these shooters come from homes, where they can afford a car, an expensive gun, a $200 leather jacket and a $100 pair of boots. Yet, life isn’t fair, no one understands me, I’m all alone. Yeah, whatever….

    You think life is unfair, go to parts of Africa, where war and poverty are a national pastime, or some parts of Mexico, where the living is so bad, thousands of people cross the border to the US with their family just to barely make a living. Maybe parts of India where there are slums right next to High Tech buildings. Or even parts of the US where folks can’t even make it working two or three jobs. For all you so-call social misfits, before you go and buy an expensive gun, and your stupid “Terminator” outfit, buy a plane ticket to one of these places live there for a year, then come back and tell everyone how “unfair” life is for YOU!!!!

    Stop being so narcissistic, you’re not mad because you have it so bad, you’re mad because others have it so good. B-O-O H-O-O H-O-O… Pull you’re head out of your @ss and turn around, A LOT of people have it worse than YOU…. You may have been turned down by the prom queen and bullied by the Jocks, but at least you have running water and 3 meals a day. So instead of shooting someone, go take a homeless person to lunch, or better yet invite them over for dinner, listen to how bad THEY have it. Tell them how you’re going to spend $1000 dollars on kewl assault rifle and make those suckers pay.. See the look on their face, when you tell them how life is so UNFAIR to you.

  66. @ protected

    Benton.fraiser was talking “to all the kids out there who think no one understands them, and think “Life is not fair”

    but i guess you were too stupid to read it- huh?

  67. Also; sorry, i hadent seen you repsond to me comment.

    “Gill was indeed a Goth.”
    He might have called himself one, but in my opinion he was just some sad fuck looking for attention.
    sounds more like an emo fag to me, eh?

    “There are brave Goths and cowardly Goths, peaceful ones and violent ones; Goths are human.”
    Exactly.
    So why the heck is the media so ignorant towards culture?
    they treat us like a fucking plauge.

    “He was many other things besides Goth, including homicidal.”
    Not homocidal, attention seeking.
    sure he killed people
    but he was drunk.
    said it in blog
    “mmm mm whiskey” did it not?

    “I don’t think the site influenced his important life choices, just the superficial things that gave him a sense of identity, like the trenchcoat, the shades, etc. The murder came out of his mental illness (and again I say that I’m the last person to say all killers are mentally ill; they’re not. But Gill obviously was, read the blog)”
    Maybe it influenced him to wear shades and a trenchcoat, but it certainly didnt tell him to shoot people.

  68. I really don’t think you are paying attention. You don’t have the right to say whether or not someone is Goth; it’s really up to that person, and Gill decided he was Goth and was accepted by Goths as a Goth, so who are you (who is anyone) to say he wasn’t?

    Anyone who thinks there are no Goth fashions or lifestyle choices doesn’t know much about Goth.

    And given that Gill actually did kill a person, how can you claim he wasn’t homicidal? Sure, he was a drunk, but that’s not why he killed someone. He killed someone because he wanted to kill somebody.

    If you want to just vent your feelings into the cybersphere, get your own blog and post there. We’re trying to have a discussion here.

  69. It doesn’t matter if kimveer was bullied from preschool untill now, it doesn’t matter that nobody wanted to date him, what does matter is the fact that there are millions of people living with those exact same problems who have the common sense not to go and shoot random people because they are depressed fucking retards. If “gothic” people don’t want “normal” people disliking them so bloody much maybe they should not make it so bloody evident that they’re fucking goths when they go on a fucking rampage killing innocent people. Yes people, not a person but people, because there are still two knocking on deaths door.

    You have to be pretty fucking screwed up to shoot an innocent girl, then check if shes dead and pump eight more into her for the fuck of it.

    Kimveer is not human, kimveer is a monster. Humans don’t generally enjoy shooting each other for fun, kimveer did, kimveer enjoyed stripping the life from innocent people. He was nothing but a monster. I seriously hope someone takes a nice long shit on his grave.

  70. I wish I agreed with you, but I don’t. I know Willy Pickton personally, and I can tell you that people who murder are, indeed, human. It’s comforting to think they’re not, that they’re some kind of aliens among us who aren’t really the same, but it would be wrong.

    Murder is by definition a human crime. It’s possible for people to be human and yet evil, or to be human and yet insane. It’s not comforting, but it’s true.

  71. so he murded a few little shits they would die in the future any whay. just giving evolution a helping hand to weed out the little shits

  72. You’re getting very close to being banned. The woman he murdered didn’t have it coming to her and the only little shit here would be you, sweetie, for what you just said.

    If you hate people so much, why do you use my blog to talk to them? Why don’t you go start your own?

  73. Why do I not feel so sad that many were terrorized and a girl was killed? Have I become so numb to how the world has evolved?

  74. Sometimes when you’re going through a lot yourself you do go numb. I don’t think the world has so much control over us that it can desensitize us unless there’s another factor involved.

    Mind you, this tragedy has a lot of resonance for Canadians, for youth, for Indians, for Sikhs, for Goths (obviously) and for Americans. It’s far more theoretical to anyone outside those groups. If you can’t identify with either the perpetrator or his victims, it becomes harder to feel very strongly about it.

    Dissociation and the inability to have emotions at all might indicate something else, though. If you can’t take pleasure in things that used to make you happy, it’s called anhedonia, and it’s a sign of serious depression. It can’t be a bad idea to take whatever steps you can to reduce stress and drama in your life and maybe ask your doctor to screen you for depression.

  75. I guess the ones I feel the most for are Kimveers family. His poor parents and his brothers. (Does anyone know thier ages?) They too lost a son and a brother. They are left to grieve in silence hiding behind closed doors. The stigma attached to them will be great. Will the classmates of the younger brothers alienate them in the same way Kimveer was alienated? Did they look up to thier older brother and want to emulate him (before the massacre)? There are countless therapists being made available to the witnesses of this horrific crime, but what about the family? Do we just ostrasize them and let them fend for themselves with the hope that the brothers grow up “normal”? This family needs to know that we feel thier pain too. As a society, we need to stop pointing fingers with blame, rather we need to learn and reach out to ALL those who are in pain….

  76. “And given that Gill actually did kill a person, how can you claim he wasn’t homicidal? Sure, he was a drunk, but that’s not why he killed someone. He killed someone because he wanted to kill somebody. ”
    You say Im wrong for saying he was only drunk, then you claim he was homocidal.
    how do you know?
    Who are you to make assumptions like that, hmm?
    I smell a hypocrite :]

  77. you dont know he was homocidal, do you?
    you didnt live inside his head.
    you dont know anything about him other than the shit on his fucking site.
    I talked to him a few times, 3 back and fourth comments.
    he seemed nice, honestly.

    i was shocked to know that someone like him had done something like that.

    but honestly, how do you know he ‘just wanted to kill someone’
    exactly, you dont.

  78. Kadie, He was surely a sociopath. I cannot go into his head, but I can only determine from the actions he expressed and not from his web pages. He could have an “online personality” quite different from the real him. Actions do speak louder than words. I am not only talking about the shooting, but in having no thoughts to what it would do to his family and the repercutions on them. He had no thought of others and only of himself. He was a true loner. Did any friends show up at his funeral in support? no. He stayed up all night long posting to strangers, and slept all day long. He was anti-social, not even saying hello to neighbors. Look at his actions, not what he concocted out in cyberspace.

    The definition is as follows :
    WordNet – Cite This Source
    sociopath

    n : someone with a sociopathic personality; a person with an antisocial personality disorder (`psychopath’ was once widely used but has now been superseded by `sociopath’) [syn: psychopath]

    WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

  79. Ellen, thanks for the backup. Kadie, he did kill someone. It wasn’t wartime, it wasn’t self-defence. It was homicide. Ergo, he was homicidal. Kimveer Gill is a murderer.

    I’m not so sure he was a sociopath, though. He did seem to be the same online as in real life; I’m well aware of the way shy, depressed people can open up to people online. Sociopaths use their online lives to manipulate and decieve, just the same as in real life. I don’t think that’s what he did. He was certainly not manipulative. To whatever limited extent he expressed kindness, he did it honestly, to his online friends (because he was so isolated he no longer had any in real life). You can see in the blog how much he cared about them, and it rings true to me, although this is just a matter of opinion.

    I think he was critically depressed, alcoholic, frustrated and intelligent and arrogant enough to believe it had to be somebody’s fault, but not his own. That’s why he raged against jocks and preps, even though everyone who knew him agreed he wasn’t bullied at all. It had to be someone else’s fault his life was in the toilet…

  80. I cant seem to find his older blog pages…just the whiskey in the morning rehash. I certainly havent come across anything hwere he was referring to a friend. Do you have a link to some saved older pages of his journal? Thanks

  81. Further up in the comments section here is a post from a friend of his. And off the top of my head I recall one post where he was sad because his VF girls were sad; another where he recommended if they were down that they play with a kitten. He wrote a couple more things that were extremely defensive of people he thought were being pushed around, particularly girls, and his old high-school friend said that was always a part of his character, looking out for and defending girls.

    Wow, I just noticed that Google has deleted everything back to July of this year from their cache of his blog. Even if the cops want to go over it, there was no need for them to do that!

    I’ll root around and see if I can’t find another mirror of the blog. Meantime, I’d suggest the Trenchcoat Chronicles (they’re in the blogroll) if you want to look for yourself. Let me know what you find.

  82. There will always be “bad” people. Criminals, liers, thieves.. In every community, every belief system, every religion, every race, every state, and country… It is wrong to judge an entire people on the actions of one individuals ignorance and crimes.. The people within these genre’s will always be different from eachother in some way or another. The intelligent thing to do now would be to sit back and take a look.. To learn from this and to stop arguing about eachothers opinions…

    Im a 29 year old “Goth” and have been since before i can remember. Im a humanitarian. I believe in God. Through experience i can say that goths seem to be a nicer, more peacefull and accepting people than most others, but THIS is my entitled opinion…

    Much love and condolences go out to the family and friends affected by this tragedy..

  83. So your generalizations are justified, but other peoples’ are not?

    If you want to be treated as a community of individuals, you’re going to have to stop claiming you’re better than other people, really. I’d like to support you, but you lose me when you put on airs. And this is MY informed opinion.

  84. GO to hell u sick fucks he deserved to die that was my fucking sister he killed she didnt do anything and now she is gone so im pretty sure i will kill u all ur all fucking dead u sick fusk u dead to all die in a mutherfucking hole

    edited by raincoaster because he is a lying, histrionic divaboy whose computer traces to another country entirely. And if you’re going to pretend to be related to somebody who died in order to grandstand here, I’m going to hand you your ass and make sure that everyone comes down south to laugh at you in person, you sad, sorry loser. Get a life.

  85. Pingback: Operation Global Media Domination: Nawked « raincoaster

  86. Is it true Kimveer had a suicide note on him? I’ve read it on a couple websites, but there weren’t any particular details about it. Wondering if it was true or not…curious as to what it said if it is indeed true.

  87. I have not heard that from any source yet, and I would be VERY surprised if the mainstream media wouldn’t have reported it, if true.

    Then again, it certainly seems like something he’d do. It’s obvious this was going to be “suicide by cop” or plain old suicide. He didn’t bother with an escape plan.

    Do you have links to those sites? I’d like to read their comments. The Smoking Gun (www.thesmokinggun.com) is always a good source, as is The Crime Library (www.crimelibrary.com) although in the old days APB News would have been all over this. Sigh, lost but not forgotten.

  88. There’s a new article about the fundraiser here:
    http://www.cbc.ca/story/news/national/2006/09/21/qc-vampirefreaksfundraiser.html

    A Montreal hospital says it will accept any money raised in a fundraising drive by Vampirefreaks.com, the goth website linked to the Dawson College shootings.

    Vampirefreaks.com launched a campaign to support the Montreal Children’s Hospital on Tuesday night in an attempt to clear the website’s blemished reputation.

    “We are raising money to donate to charity, to help people in need, and to show the world that goths are not the scary, evil criminals that some people make us out to be,” says a message on the web page set up for the fundraiser.

    As of Thursday morning, the charity drive had collected $2,371. Donations have come in from Australia, England and the United States, from members with nicknames like “Drowning in Blood” and “Dolly Dead.”

    Donors have also posted messages expressing regret about the Dawson College attack.

    The hospital hesitated when it first learned of the fundraiser, but it will accept any money collected from vampirefreaks.com members, after consulting with family members of the victim killed in the shootings, Anastasia De Sousa.

    “We contacted the De Sousa family, and they gave us full permission to accept these donations from this website,” said Linda Christman, the hospital’s associate executive director.

    The only stipulation the family had was that part of the money raised be used to help troubled teenagers.

  89. This guy is a moron, fucking waste of life and he took down others with him. Blame it on society . . . fuck off. He is a pussy and a piece of shit. Its a miricle that only one person died, and im very sorry for that. But as for him, one less fucking loser in the world.

  90. Indeed. But what I’m wondering is why he turned into a loser in the first place, and what can be done to prevent people from going that way themselves? Sure, people have freedom of choice, but if he were living in MY basement, I’d make seeing a counsellor and getting rid of the goddam guns a requirement. WTF were his parents thinking?

  91. That’s what I don’t understand; how his parents didn’t think it was abnormal for a 25 year old man to be living in their basement and with an obvious obsession for guns. And I take it he didn’t have a job? As a parent, those things should have been some sort of warning signs. Just so bizarre!

  92. Thanks, I appreciate the update.

    He had a job last year, but got fired, if memory serves correctly, basically for being antisocial (no argument there!). He was living on unemployment insurance, but yeah, his parents should have insisted that he get out or contribute in some way. When a man sits in his gloomy apartment drinking all day and raging against society, indulging in delusions of persecution(he was NOT actually bullied) and polishing his guns, it’s time for a wee intervention.

    Here’s the translation from the Canoe post cited in the Wikipedia link you give:

    “Kimveer Gill had written a letter

    The killer had written a letter before going to the Dawson College. It is what one discovered during the autopsy.

    Kimveer Gill had written a short missive of two or three paragraphs which it had kept on him. It does not explain the reasons for its gesture, but it repeats all the hatred which lives it.”

    Strange we can’t find the text anywhere. I’ll keep looking. Thanks again for the update.

  93. kimveer is a fucking asshole. he could have killed himself and left these innocent people uninjured. this asshole is a murderer that calls himself a fucking goth. how retard…

  94. Whoever wrote this, I’m pretty positive that you didnt consider the fact that you as well called this man a ‘goth’. Therefore you LABELED him as not being an individual. And as for THIS comment:

    Allan Mason said,
    September 16, 2006 at 4:48 pm

    You know what your talking about, Vampirefreaks is not the victim here obviously. They failed to stop a tragedy that only people from their website could have stopped. I started a petition online to shut down the site because no one else has so far. I hope it gets supported.

    I am a personal owner of one of the profiles on that site. I had nothing to do with Kimveer Gill or his life. So I was not capable of preventing his actions. And as for you wanting to shut down the site, its not happening, Jet, (site owner) has made sure of it. And VampireFreaks is starting a charity to help the victims and the children of the Montreal Childrens’ Hospital. Now as you seem to think the ‘Goth’ people are bad, if they were so death-oriented, why are they starting a charity. I find it hilarious that everyone feels the need to get their panties in a bunch about something that everyone likes to think they know everything about . What happened, happened. We need to let it go, no one knows why, there was too many variables with Mr. Kimveer Gill to take into consideration. The way I see it, everyone that is thrashing on Kimveer is just as bad as those supporting him. Sousa is dead, and Kimveer is dead. So why are we fighting, when we really have nothing to do with it? We shouldnt be, thats the answer.

  95. And for anyone who commented accusing Gill of being ‘Goth’. Please, by all means, define it. Your telling me that the way he dressed made him gothic? Then hell man, I’ll put on a trench coat and give myself a mohawk and that’ll make me gothic.

    Also may I add, that for anyone who considers themselves not ‘gothic’ please read this. The media says that Kimveer Gill was a loner and was never seen with anyone. That he was lonely, and hungered for human interaction. You all say he’s mentally unstable, I say that its because of you people that he was this way. You always think that your the solution to a problem, ever consider the fact that you may be the cause as well? Everytime you call someone a name, start a trend, something new comes around–Someone gets hurt. We all have our own ways of dealing with things, its just the fact that some people feel the need to point fingers at others at how they deal with it. Take this for instance..Society made Gill hurt and gave him a gun, Gill turned around and basically gave society what society gave him.

    Its nice to have a story from both sides of the fence isnt it? Makes you feel like your missing something about the full story…Think about it.

  96. Gill self-defined as being Goth, for fuck’s sake. Who are you; who is anyone, to say that he wasn’t Goth?

    So it rattles your cage: LET IT SHAKE.

    Society didn’t hurt Gill. Look at the record; he did okay in school, he was employable. There are those who say Gill was simply evil, and as someone who’s come face to face with evil (I know Willy Pickton) I can say that it just doesn’t seem to me that he was either evil OR victimized. He was making about twice as much as I make. He didn’t have to pay rent. He could indulge himself, and the posts on his blog and the personality tests indicated that he was waaaaaay over to the hedonistic end of the scale.

    Kimveer Gill had it made.

    What happened?

    Kimveer Gill was insane. Read the blog posts. Go to the transcripts. The man was clinically insane.

  97. Raincoaster, you keep saying “read the blog”, so I did.

    Most of what I read are from people (including you) being either being defensive about Goth, either attacking Goth. If you people weren’t so full of yourselves and you’d try to open your eyes, you’d have noticed some disturbing comments in this blog.

    comment #63 – JS

    “eye le big ta du gotz en criss
    chu daccord aik toi si y fallait vrmt ke tu le fasse bin la tu la fait tu px ten venter mm si té mort hahahahahahahaha ”

    As a Quebecer, let me translate in standard english : ” Hey big man, you”ve got some fucking guts! I agree with you if you really had to do it, now you can boast about it, even if you’re dead hahahahahahah”

    comment #101 – katie

    so he murded a few little shits they would die in the future any whay. just giving evolution a helping hand to weed out the little shits#

    then from the same katie … comment #107

    “he seemed nice, honestly.
    i was shocked to know that someone like him had done something like that.”

    comment #129 – peaceful

    “ur sick for wanting to kill all those inocent ppl goths should all ie they serve no perpose”

    So after these (and more) I wonder about this comment from raincoaster :

    comment 125 – raincoaster

    “Indeed. But what I’m wondering is why he turned into a loser in the first place, and what can be done to prevent people from going that way themselves? Sure, people have freedom of choice, but if he were living in MY basement, I’d make seeing a counsellor and getting rid of the goddam guns a requirement. WTF were his parents thinking? ”

    Raincoaster, you may not be their parent, you have no control over those people’s lives, and this is not your basement, however this is your web site, and you ignore it as Kimveer’s words of hate were ignored before.

    Are you going to do something about these?

  98. “Bourgeois?” That is hilarious! Are you wearing a beret at this very moment?

    Chan, darling, I was asleep. You need to get more of a life if you expect that your comments will force me to start running those peoples’ lives.

    If you’ll read the comments again, you’ll see that I either addressed the comments directly or ignored them entirely, because some people are nothing more than trolls. Some people are hateful, some people are stupid, and some people are just looking to pick fights. There are those you can engage in debate with, and there are those you can’t. As this is a blog, there’s a limited amount I can do, but I DO do it. If I’m not running this blog the way you like, well there’s a limited amount YOU can do.

    If antiquated namecalling is the best you can do, you’re not exactly going to be a major change agent in your life.

  99. SALUT TOUT LE MONDE, je m’appelle Jamie Poole, je n’ai qu’18 ans (je vais au college). J’ai entendu parler de Kimveer Gill. Ce qui est grave: puisque sa mort, au contraire, c’est le fait qu’il existait . . .

    HELLO EVERYONE, my name’s Jamie Poole, I’m just 18 years of age (and I go to college). I’ve heard of Kimveer Gill, alright. What’s serious isn’t that he’s dead, on the contrary, it’s that he existed . . .

  100. True enough. But apparently when he was younger he was a good guy, and he still had many decent qualities until his death. What choices did he make between then and now that made him think killing someone was a good idea? It’s hard to imagine. But we need to understand it to prevent other would-be Kimveers from taking that path.

  101. Raincoaster, you’re right : I DID go overboard with that last comment. I had no right to judge you because you weren’t answering fast enough for my taste. I’m sorry about that.

    And I had no right to call you “bourgeois”, as I don’t know you, only by some comments in your blog, and I am sorry about that as well.
    However, I think you misunderstood the meaning of the term “bourgeois” : I used this term because there is no real equivalent in the english language, as far as I know.
    I meant that you’re an individualist, and don’t think much of others (other than with words) if it’s going to rock your bubble. But again, I had no right to say that, because I don’t know you, and we’re all pretty much like that, anyway. We think about ourselves first, it’s human.

    That crack about the “beret” was far from being pertinent, no? It was easy, prejudiced and downright cheap : it just doesn’t seem to be you. Did you just throw in that “smart” comment because I used a French word?
    People from Montreal, Quebec don’t wear berets, they never have. In the old days, some people from France used to. And I’m sure you’re not one of those who think that we still live in log cabins, and that Natives still wear feathers, do you?

    As for your comment “You need to get more of a life …”
    Firstly, I do have a life, but thanks for your concern.

    Secondly, you say : “If you’ll read the comments again”. Actually … did you read mine? If you did, I don’t understand this answer ” … if you expect that your comments will force me to start running those peoples’ lives.” when I do believe I said quite the opposite, and very clearly : “you have no control over those people’s lives”. Hum.

    Thirdly, the only comments I saw you really adress directly, are the ones that were directed at YOU. As far as I can see, you mostly agressively replied to those who accused you of being anti-Goth, or dared to have an opinion, different than your own. I didn’t see any comment or action against any violent reactions, unless they were directed at you, personnally. I might be wrong, though?

    The main reason for my post was to express my frustration about people who complain about society, judge everybody, and those same people never do anything to improve things. You asked : ” what can be done to prevent people from going that way themselves?” I answered you, as you are Master of your web site, your blog.

    I somewhat thought that you actually wanted to have an answer to that question.

    What if one of those mentionned in my initial post went out tomorrow and killed someone? That wouldn’t be your fault for not doing anything, of course. But you’re asking what you can do : you can either try to help those people, understand them, what drives them to violence , or you can also ban them, flag them, etc. But don’t ignore them. Being ignored is one of the most depressing state these young ones suffer in this society we created. If you don’t want to know the answer, I can’t blame you. But then don’t ask the question.

    You also say : ” (…) getting rid of the goddam guns a requirement. WTF were his parents thinking? ” You’re right in thinking that his parents are (partly) responsible for how he turned out. A sane education will have a lot of weight in the balance. But do you have kids? When’s the last time you had the idea of trying to control your son who’s an adult? Please don’t judge his parents, we just don’t know if they were good people or not.

    I’m just sorry that this society lost the reality of living as a community. A wolrdwide community.

    That being said, I might just like to battle, as you do.
    But FYI : know that I recognize most of your comments as being from an intelligent, sensitive person. Why else would I bother to post in this blog?

  102. By the way … Sorry but I don’t understand the expression “antiquated” namecalling.
    Can someone shed the light on a poor blonde frenchie?

  103. Ok, forget about the question : I checked it out in the dictionary and found what it meant.
    I agree with you on that one, raincoaster. It IS an old and outdated scene.Even if it still exists.

  104. “Bourgeois” is a word that hasn’t really been bandied about in English except in some wistful Trotskiite, beret-wearing circles for a good fifty years. And it does in no sense mean “an individualist, and don’t think much of others (other than with words) if it’s going to rock your bubble.” It means an undifferentiated, defensive and sheep-like member of the middle class who is consumed with status insecurity. If that is what you meant to call me, then by all means go with it. I will of course object, because it’s in no way factually accurate, but it certainly is antiquated.
    Do I have the obligation to give attention to everyone who demands it? No. In fact, witholding it could be a life-changing event for some of them. My mother used to work in a hospital, and they had a woman who would “attempt suicide” every two or three weeks. This went on for literally years. One day she called the ambulance and, because of a technical difficulty, couldn’t get through. She had to sit there all afternoon wondering if she really WOULD die this time, and would the world mind at all or think they were rid of a nuisance. Instead of bleeding to death, she wrapped up her wrists and got on with her life. She wasn’t a fully well or sane person after that, but she didn’t try to kill herself any more.
    The provocation and response feedback loop is self-reinforcing and can be unhealthy. You want more and more attention, so you act more and more outrageously. At some point it might be a good idea for someone in the loop to step back and cease to participate; the system falls, and honest dialogue can then take place.
    I think you’ll find I come down pretty hard on expressions of hatred or bigotry, regardless of their sources. Check my thread on AA Gill and Albania, if you doubt me. But there are a large number of simple trolls in this thread; ie, they don’t want to do anything other than stir up shit. They don’t actually mean what they say. They don’t care, they simply want to provoke a reaction. I’ve been around the Internet for quite awhile now, and I’m getting pretty good at recognizing them.
    What if someone in this thread went out and killed someone tomorrow? What if they did? I’m a deontologist of the old skool, meaning (among other things) that we cannot control others; we can only control our own actions. Any idea of control over outcomes or guilt at the way things play out is an illusion.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deontology

    In ethics, deontological ethics or deontology (Greek: Deon meaning obligation or duty) is a theory holding that decisions should be made solely or primarily by considering one’s duties and the rights of others. Deontology posits the existence of a priori moral obligations, further suggesting that people ought to live by a set of defined principles that do not change merely as a result of a change in circumstances (ie. situational ethics).
    One of the most important implications of deontology is that praiseworthy goals can never justify immoral actions, in contrast to doctrines that claim the ends justify the means. Deontology is directly in opposition to consequentialism, an ethical theory in which the ends can justify the means because decisions are judged primarily in terms of their consequences..

  105. To: benton.fraiser

    WELL SAID, I couldn’t have said it better! (in reference to post no.92) ;-)

    Raincoaster, I like your [this] forum/blog page(s).
    You seem fair and objective in your responses regarding this matter.

    Personally, I don’t think goths, videogames or music are to be blamed for Kimveer Gill’s actions. He [probably] did what he did, a horrible and despicable thing, not because of the the group/site he belonged to or the way he dressed but most likely because HE had personal ‘problems’, ‘issues’, whatever you want to call it. I live in Montreal and it’s just a horrible and tragic event that has affected all the community here. My prayers go to all the victims and their families.

    I read K.G.’s vf blog before it was taken down and I still don’t understand why no one noticed(one of his vf friends perhaps…) that this guy was seriously depressed(not to mention angry as hell) and obviously needed some sort of help? Meanwhile, reports say he lived with his family… and they claim not having noticed anything wrong with him?! Something isn’t right.

    Katie(presumably his friend), would you still defend him if Anastacia DeSousa was your sister? Think about it before ramblling stupidities… he egoistically took an INNOCENT life and injured many others. In a way he became the bully, he became exactly what he despised… not even thinking of his family, the chaos and sadness he left behind.

  106. I think Katie is trying to come to terms with what has happened, and that for any of us it would be difficult. She’s not stupid; she’s trying to figure out how the hell this could have happened with one of her friends.

    He DID become what he claimed to despise, that’s very true. And that was his decision, not something thrust upon him by an external force.

  107. I understand that. And I never said she was stupid.

    I was referring to her post no.101(assuming it is the same Katie).

    If it isn’t the same person, I apologize and withdraw my comment.

  108. Well being at Dawson om that day I just have to say after reading all the comments here….

    1) I never thought about his being Goth during or after the shooting. That didnt mean anything to me other than that was his way, his personal choice or style.
    2) I dont hate him, I pity him. He was a dark sole with a hole in his heart who couldnt find one reason to live.
    3) The worst part of all this is not only is Anatasia gone but so is our peace of mind. Any loud noise scares us (Dawson students), people running, even if its just fooling around sends us into a panick. Being in closed room freaks me out. So he took more than just a life. He scarred alot of people. I like the qoute that someone wrote that said..”He became the bully, exactly what he despised”.
    4) What bothers me the most is the people who see him as a hero. Those who condone his behaviour and those who call down his victims. OK there are jerks everywhere you go, but 10,000 students couldnt all be jerks, we are brothers and sister, duaghters and sons, we are friends and wives and husbands, mothers and fathers. We have children and parents….if he wanted to die, that was his choice but he didnt have the right to take someone with him.

    And that is the bottom line.

  109. raincoaster, you amaze me. First time I “see” someone who has such a perfect equilibrium between heart and mind. I agree with you on all counts.

  110. rosebush, I hope you’re okay … My daughter is going to another college in Montreal, but I was still worried about her when I heard the news. If you remember the day it happened, there were many contradictory infos about the situation. I was at the office downtown when first thing I heard was that there was a shooting at a college, that 3 or 4 people were killed, and that the killer was loose, and seen going towards downtown. When I couldn’t reach my daughter from my cell because of the network being unavailable, caused by flooding of calls and text messaging, I got nervous. When I finally got to talk to her, she was ok. She has a friend who was at Dawson when it happened.
    She was very outraged when she heard that the Goth community was being accused for his actions. I agree with her thinking. However, I’d like Goths to realize that their philosophy would be far more useful for their own community if they translated it into action, positive action. Our system is greatly flawed, I agree. Then let’s try to put it right! If we don’t, who will? We can at least try, can’t we?
    I’m sometimes trying to understand what could have gone through this man’s mind. And other times, I’m thinking ” why would I focus on this single perversity, when we hardly give a thought to the perversity which causes many people to die and suffer each and everyday, all over the world. Think of Darfour in Africa. Those people are forgotten because they are just “people”. They have no value, like oil has. What country would spend that much money on saving people who have no riches, just people?

    Think of the Native teenagers, nowadays. Not only do they go through the same problems as the “white” teenagers do, but they also have to deal with an overwhelming purcentage of peer pressure, incest, violence, easy drugs, alcoolic parents and isolated to the point where their social weekend get-together place is a vacant lot by the lake, where you see bunches of them crawling on their hands and knees, drunk or drugged, or both. However, when you go outside the reserve and live in the woods with the elders and families, you’re living in a completely different world, in their real uncorrupted world. I know a Native kid who tried to strangle himself when he was 11 years-old . I couldn’t believe it. It was so far-fetched. What could possibly go through a kid’s mind in order for him to think about killing himself? It’s so unnatural, so unreal. He confided me, as we were strolling through a field, that he was doing better. I felt so much joy! I just want him to feel good, to be happy. I feel so mad when I hear of suicides and accidents because of neglect of children (even if they vandalise my car), as I did when my Native boyfriend got killed by a car hitting him, a catholic priest hitting him. They are humans, they are part of us, part of our cultures.I think that the worst feeling for me is when I realize bad things will happen to people, and I can’t do anything about it.

    The media tells us that there are many counselors available to help Dawson students to go through all this. Rosebush, do you feel you should ask for help? If you do, I hope that this help they’re talking about is real.

  111. je ne sai pa commen le dire il est né il est mon comme un con mais si sa arriverais dans mon ecol je serai terroriser et maintenan je comprendrai skil ont vécu

  112. rosebush, I, too, hope you’re going to be okay. By all means avail yourself of the counselling offered; those people are experts, and sometimes you need to doctor your soul as much as you do your body.

    Chan, I’m glad that we’ve reached a point of understanding. I can’t imagine what those hours must have been like for anyone in Montreal.

    You all might be interested in this:
    http://raincoaster.wordpress.com/2006/09/22/vampirefreaks-fundraiser-for-montreal-childrens-hospital/

    VampireFreaks is having a fundraiser for the hospital, approved by Anastasia deSousa’s family.

  113. Rosebush, I too hope you are ok, it must have been frightening.

    Another thing, I think we should keep in mind that, yes it is great that experts are available for those who feel the need to talk, however, we, as a community, as interracting individulas, do not need to be experts or have PhD’s to say a kind word to someone, to give them a hug or a pat on the back. Maybe, just maybe if someone had done that to Kimveer he wouldn’t have done what he did.

    What we as a society need to do is RESPECT one another, CARE about the ones around us. We can’t just limit our compassion/love to family members and those close to us…we have to extend our hand to ‘strangers’ as well.

    Like I said in my prior post, Kimveer Gill is the one who decided to do a horrible thing, HE IS the one who pulled the trigger not society, not vampirefreaks site nor Marilyn Manson.
    However, I think ‘society’ is also the factor that [in some way] made him that way.

    AS INTERACTING & INTERDEPENDENT HUMAN BEINGS WE ARE INTERCONNECTED AND IN SOME WAY WE ARE PRODUCTS OF THE SOCIETY THAT WE LIVE IN.

    EVERYONE HAS THE POWER TO MAKE A POSITIVE CHANGE… LET’S START TODAY. A SMILE DOESN’T COST A THING AND IT MIGHT JUST BRIGHTEN SOMEONE’S DAY :-)

  114. Hey raincoaster. I was just curious if you ever found anything about the suicide note that was found on Kimveer. I still can’t find anything else about it. Thanks!

  115. It was only mentioned in that one newspaper; all the other reports I’ve found say there was no note, so I’m going to assume it was an inaccurate initial report. Even if they wanted to keep it on ice while they analyzed it they’d have confirmed it by now.

  116. This has to stop. This whole Goth stuff is hurting alot of people even the ones that believe in it. It’s messing with thier head and hurting many families. Kimveer was a ticking Bomb and exploded unfortunately on the life of an innocent girl and other victims as well. Aren’t you guys just sick of violence. I do blame the site that encourages freaks and messed up teens. Why do they allow these kinds of cruel violent attiutdes to run wild on their site. I also blame the parents. It is you who raised Kimveer and is you who did not reach out and supprot him. I know you are all mourning and I do give you my condelences but I also believe if you had paid more attention, if you had supported and monitored him when he was younger if you had guided him and taught him what was wrong and right in life and loved him enough He would still be with you.
    I hope families would reach out to their children and start truely listening to them and to be there for them. Or send them to places where they can be helped. Teach them to believe in God and life. Send love and postivity into their hearts.
    I truely wish that sites like Vampirefreaks and metalgoth would be shot down or monitored more now that these sites are creating monsters and killers. This World has enough crazy things going on let’s decrease this craziness and each start doing our job.

  117. Goth isn’t inherently violent; it’s inherently melancholic and morbid, but not neccessarily violent.

    It wasn’t Goth that made Kimveer Gill kill Anastasia DeSousa and himself. We may disagree about whether it was insanity or just the evil exercise of free will, but it was Kimveer Gill and not VampireFreaks or anyone else that committed those crimes.

    I agree that intervention and closer supervision would have helped Gill and at least flagged his violent side. While his friends say he had excellent parents, the reports do seem to indicate they weren’t exactly aware of how Gill had slid; for instance, his mother told the media to “ask the neighbors” because they’d all say Gill was a great kid. They basically all said they were afraid of him and he creeped them out. Somebody was not seeing him for who he’d become, and that was the person who enabled his shut-in, alcoholic life.

  118. ye umm i dont think kimveer was a gothic person because in most pictures he doesnt look like a scary devil. but what he did was rong and i really think that was truly rong. in my opinin that shudent happen. and man whats with goths guy they scar me.

  119. Kimveer Gill said he was Goth, and joined Goth websites, and was accepted by the communities there (barring the time he was banned from the Trenchcoat Chronicles, but that’s more crime than Goth) so I think it’s pretty fair to say he was Goth. It’s true he wasn’t the vampire-style of Goth, but rather the Neo/Matrix kind, which is less about being an outcast in society and more about nihilism, but it’s still Goth.

    Honestly, Goths do look scary. Either they look like they’re violent, or they look like the victims of violence; I have a friend who won’t go out to bars until she’s carefully applied “vampire bites” to her neck. But they’re not generally dangerous. They’re morbid; the idea of death is something that interests them, hence the deathly pale makeup and so on.

    If you want to know what Goth is really about, I’d suggest reading what Marilyn Manson has to say. He’s a smart boy, and the more of him I read, the more I like him. He explains things very well.

    Also, his music kicks ass. Not as much ass as Nine Inch Nails, but ass nonetheless.

  120. I really do not know much about ‘Goth(s)’ so I really can’t say if I like or dislike them.
    It seems that these days, since the tragedy, everyone seems to be interested in them.

    Why do ppl still wonder if K.G. was a goth or not? Who cares? And most importantly, does it make any difference? I think the question should be why no one close to him saw his ‘pain’ and desperation and tried to help him? Or why he decided to go and actually take out his anger on people?

    *Raincoaster* since you are a self-proclaimed [former or present?] goth… can you tell me what does being ‘goth’ means?

    What are TrenchCoat Chronicles and why was he banned there?

    Also, personally, I don’t like how Marilyn Manson presents himself on stage or his music videos.
    Meanwhile, I was surprised how eloquent, articulate and intelligent he is after reading/seeing his interviews. Minus the ‘elaborate’ make up(lol) and the distrubing/weird stuff he does on stage/videos I have to say he seems down to earth and [very] intelligent. I had the opportunity to listen to one of his cds and I think that ppl who can’t read ‘between the lines’ shouldn’t listen to his music. I doubt even he takes what he writes seriously. Nonetheless, as a [public] artist I think he has a certain responsability to ‘watch’ what he does, writes, etc.

    Anyway, my two cents.

  121. People want to know if Kimveer Gill was Goth or not so they can define him as “other” and pretend he wasn’t human. This is a pretty universal impulse when a murder has been committed; you want to find out that the killer was NOT normal, was nothing like anyone you know, was some kind of weird, alien freak and inhuman. Hannah Arendt talks about this a bit, about the need to demonize the enemy in emotional self-defence. It’s universal, but it’s wrong.

    People who aren’t Goth want Gill to be Goth so they can say “well, they’re not like US!” and people who are Goth want him to be not-Goth, so they can say “Goths aren’t like that.” Of course I’m overgeneralizing, but that’s the impulse; some overcome it, thankfully.

    Kimveer Gill was many things, including Goth, but most importantly he was human. We’ve got to understand and respect that before we can begin to make sense of all this and learn from it.

    To learn more about Kimveer Gill’s relationship with the Trenchcoat Chronicles you can check out this blog post of mine:
    http://raincoaster.wordpress.com/2006/09/17/hidden-messages-in-kimveer-gills-blog/
    or you can click on the link in my blogroll to go directly to the site.

    Manson’s an enigmatic fellow; I agree that he doesn’t take that stuff literally, but uses it for emotional effect. You’re right that people who can’t read between the lines shouldn’t be listening to that, or at least should have someone who CAN give them a reality check.

  122. True, the notion of him being a “alien freak” or “inhuman” would make us feel [somewhat] better I guess, unfortunately it isn’t that simple.

    Thank you for the link btw.

  123. You’re welcome. There are three or four Gill-related posts on this blog, and of course innumerable ones elsewhere. I hope we can all learn something, resolve to interfere if we see someone heading down that road, and move on in wisdom.

  124. NEW UPDATE:
    Apparently, Gill did have hidden messages on his blog, because here’s a CBC report that makes reference to him blogging about going on his shooting spree.
    http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2006/09/28/qc-megadeath.html

    In his blog posted on vampirefreaks.com, Gill, who described himself as a huge Megadeth fan, had singled out the song À Tout le Monde, urging others to listen to it. He wrote in his blog that the song helped convince him to go on his shooting rampage that killed one and injured 19.
    On Wednesday night at Montreal’s Bell Centre, Megadeth’s Dave Mustaine took pains to distance his music from Gill’s actions.
    “The guy who went to Dawson College and shot everyone, it’s terrible,” Mustaine told a crowd of nearly 7,000 people.
    “Aside from the fact that what he did was very wrong, we have a relationship with Montreal, and that really pissed us off,” he said. “That guy was not worthy of being a Megadeth fan.”

    The song is in memory of the living, Mustaine explained. “It’s for those who lost their lives, and it’s a gift to those who are in the process of healing.”

    There was no question in Mustaine’s mind that Megadeth would perform the song in Montreal during their show Wednesday night. “[Gill] is not going to control us from the grave.”

  125. ye umm im not tryen 2 affend any 1 heer buu……gill wass brown and ive never really seen a brown goth. and look a hym he waznt a goth. in my opinion he probably just dressed up as a goth wen he was about to get hymself gilled and thanx eh all of u fer teachen me dat goths arent dat scary… thanx

  126. jap, look at the blog, read the comments; Gill was a Goth. He didn’t just dress up like that one day to frame the movement.

    And Agatha, he wasn’t a moron; he was a smart enough fellow. He was insane, not stupid.

  127. We can speculate till the cows come home . Ultimately we will never know why Kimveer did it. The only one who knows is Kimveer.

    I hate that he is still controlling us from his grave. I hate that he has made us afraid every day we are at school. I hate that loud noises send us into a panic like this past wednesday when at 12:45 a guy yelled while playing cards in the atrium which happened at the exact moment they started to jackhammer. The combined noised sent students running from the building again. We were in the same classrooms as that fateful day. It happened at almost the same time (12:45 vs. 12:42). I ahet that someone left a trenchcoat at our school with a note that read “this is not over”. When will it be over??????

  128. I wish I had answers for you. Most Canadians are fortunate in that, frankly, we never need to be brave. We never need to deal with what you have to deal with every day now. I know that as time goes by Gill’s power will wane, and that he lacked the ultimate power he sought, to be able to kill you. Every breath you draw is a repudiation of what he believed and a triumph for you. I mean that; you should be proud, because every day, every moment that you go on, is a victory over him and everything he stood for.

    Victory may not be easy, but you won.

  129. Ok, this dude is insane. INSANE. I love metal music, but I sure as fuck don’t hate the world, I don’t give a shit if someone’s goth either, they can be who they’d like. But just look at him, he’s evil. And I’m not saying all goths are evil, but I’m guessing a majority are. I have no idea why he decided to kill all of these people at Dawson, but I think it was a fucked up idea. Btw, please don’t label yourself as goth, no one knows what goth truley is. and don’t label Trench. No one should be labelled, that’s all I have to say.

    Kudos.

  130. You’re saying a majority of Goths are evil, but no one knows what Goth is, so your statement makes sense because…???

    I flatly disagree that a majority of Goths are evil, any more than a majority of people are evil, and as to whether or not they are, I refer you to Hannah Arendt.

    It’s certainly not up to you whether I call myself a Goth or not. No-one needs someone else’s permission to form or to express any aspect of their identity. It’s a label, sure, but it’s not the same as reducing your personality only to what fits in the clothes. Labels are concepts, like saying “He’s Amish, she’s a basketball player, he’s a trainspotter.” Only a simpleton or a bigot would assume there was nothing more to these people than that.

    Or, come to think of it, a cynic. Maybe there’s nothing more to you than an illogical, shallow thinker: prove me wrong.

  131. Kimveer took the easy way out the miserable piece of shit that he was. Hope Satan is making him scrub the shit-infested toilets in hell.

  132. dereck is a moronic troll and we all know better than to pay attention to trolls.

    Machinist, welcome. Thanks for your comment; we are in agreement. Although I’ll correct your spelling of Old Nick’s name, if it’s okay.

  133. Sad how easy people are manipulated. Ever since school and college shootings were popularized by the media they became all the rage.

    Kimveer was antitheist, why the hell couldn`t he just go fuck um some religious folks not contributing anything to society.

  134. What was I just saying about trolls? no, it may come as a shock to you, but even religious people have the right to live. Deal with it.

    4you, you B lame. Why don’t you go fuck yourself…same as every night of your pointless life. Welcome to the blog, sweetie!

    not again, thanks for that. I’ve got it in the post. missdynamite did us all a service mirroring that site. I’m hoping that eventually the hidden entries will emerge as well; so far all we’ve got is the police statement that he’d laid out his plans in the blog. We haven’t seen those actual entries.

  135. OmG tHaTs ReAlY REALY DiStUrBiNg AbOuT ThE EgGs….. LikE EW WtF??? ThaT DuDe WaS ReAlY ANd SeRiOuSlY SICk AnD VF ShOulD HaVe NoTiCeD I CuRrEnTlY HaVe A VF AcCoUnT BuT I Am CoNcIdErIng DeLeTinG It…… WOW ThTS RrEalY FuCkEd UP!!!!!

  136. VF says they’re monitoring a lot closer now, and you can BET the cops are watching it pretty closely as well, so I wouldn’t delete the account just because of this. It’s over, thank God.

  137. you fuking goths man dude u guys look like some freaky asss homoz like dude change the look wsup up with the tear drop blak liners and the blackness ervywhrr jezzz uuuuuuuuu guys think u mans dead or something u fuking MORONs HA HA Ha!!
    lol
    n e wayssssss gothS r FAgs which influnece normal ppl to turn into FAgs also
    kimveer Gill was one of the victims of these tragically crazy asss dumb punk asss Gothzzz u scary ma fukerZ
    peace black ugly Gothzzzzz u guys look better with the white stick it too

  138. Speaking of morons…Jatt, the only way you found this post was via a search for information about Kimveer Gill. So however pathetic you think Goths are, you are nothing but a Gothstalker. I hope you’re proud.

    Love the “zzzzz” use. Stuff like this bores me to sleep in seconds, but how did you know?

  139. umm yah wid jatts comment u no i think gothz r prettyy scary buu there just people like us. were all godz creatures and were all brotherz and sisters. and we shud relpect each other even if were different. lol Onatrio Rulesssss. Jap

  140. Again I say: as opposed to those who troll the Internet looking for info about Goths and then leaving incredibly poorly-spelled and punctuated comments? Thanks for that; your remarks will be given all the attention they deserve, you may be sure.

  141. Ok there, think of new words buddy like were the hell did u get Gothstalker from wtf. and yah goths dont believen god the believen the devil.
    peacezzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  142. Wat the hellz rong with u people therz like 200 comments do u guyz have no life and yo wats with the blach shyt on ur faces man thas just freakyy anywayz u guyz have no life.

  143. Sweetheart, you’re numbers 196, 197, and 198; how does that make you feel? Not only are you just another commentor in this huge thread, but you pretend to be three different ones, you talk to yourself, and you’re about four weeks behind everybody else.

    Welcome!

  144. I don’t think Trench’s site is garbage at all. It keeps an eye out for this kind of violence, examines patterns, predicts outcomes: Trench isn’t just some death junkie. His blog is where I found the letter from the widow of the Pennsylvania Amish-shooter, which is an enormously wise and forgiving document. I applaud his efforts and he’s often ahead of the police in teasing out meaning from the bits of information that are available. He’s been on the side of right in this, as in many other cases.

    He banned Gill because he thought the guy was creepy and dangerous: doesn’t that speak for his motives and character?

    Inspectorlohmann’s blog is interesting and informative, although he attributes the Tower Shooter murders to rage which, frankly, wasn’t a factor; the shooter had a brain tumour that caused the psychosis. Other than that, though, it looks very interesting. Thanks for that.

  145. And you are entitled to your opinion, meanwhile I stand by mine.

    I can understand why he banned Gill.
    However, I noticed [even] worse posts on his site and it doesn’t seem that Mr.Trench banned the individulas who posted them…?
    Ironic really.
    Therefore, no, that would not speak of his motives or character.
    It simply suggests that he doesn’t like to be contradicted or NOT have the LAST WORD, which indicates narrow-mindedness and subjectiveness which clearly has no place in these type of ‘speculatory’ forums.
    Perhaps I completely missed ‘the point’ of his blog and if that is the case… I sadly do not care ;-)

    You’re welcome.

  146. If you have such an issue with Trench, why don’t you take it up with Trench? I certainly haven’t seen the comments you’re talking about, only what I’ve posted about above.

    We have different opinions of the man and his website, but that’s no reason for you to drop civility and mutual respect on this blog.

  147. It’s all good… please don’t make a big fuss out of this alright? lol

    I was just expressing my opinion regarding his site that’s all (you gave me his link a while back and I only had time to check it recently)

    You are going to far now c’mon(lol): “drop civility and mutual respect”

    I respect everyone’s opinion and this was mine. End of story. :-)

  148. yo raincoaster srry eh fer posten 3 comments fer no reaon i waz jus bored and had nuthun better to do. bu i really wanna no do goths believen god cuz i wanna learn about dem n get to no dem.P.s srry want do it again

  149. Okay, no probs. Goths do believe in god; look at it this way, they’re all walking around broken-hearted because they think God has forsaken them, either for things they did or for things they felt. That gives them this outcast feeling, naturally. Goth is a really quite religious group.

    You can go to VampireFreaks.com and surf around without having to sign in or anything. And you can always google Goth. I was really surprised to find out recently that not all Goths are Christian: I thought it was a natural Christian thing, to go with all the Satanism and such…Satanism is a reaction to Christianity and Goth is often a rejection of Christianity as well, but also maintaining all the religious framework that Christianity set out. It’s an odd relationship. But I’ve learned in the last couple of months that there are a lot of Muslim Goths, and of course Kimveer Gill was of Sikh background and he was a Goth as well. All very educational, if confusing.

  150. thanx umm i alwayz asumed that they wurshiped 2 satin because i alwayz see goths on tv at rock consertz wearing satin costumes and i see them arguing with the chrishten groups. n yah kimveer was sikh n really 2 be a goth u kant be sikh cuz in sikhism it sez not to cut ur hair n kimveer did that c the thing is kimveer had a backround of sikhisnm but didnt follow the religion he jus followed his own path. P.s thanx raincoaster

  151. I hope you’re being facetious.

    Goths are interested in Satan and sometimes use Satanic devices as aesthetic objects, the way the Decadents did. Satan is a part of many religions, but Gill wasn’t into Satanism or even just the imagery. He was much more a Matrix-style deindividuated Goth.

  152. u no i think he just did it to impresonate goths cuz think about it have u every really seen a brown goth?

    Brown 4 life (no affence)

  153. str8 the fuck up Kimveer Gill was a truu G …….now ppl should know not to fuck around with brown ppl cuz if you do …you’ll get shot up to …..The Good Die Young

  154. yo
    raincoaster ur thing isnt very populatar any more eh
    well.. cuz i posted that 3113111 abou 3 weekz ago and after that there have only been 3 commentz bu don worrie ill styll be heer lol eZ
    Jatt 4 life Satseri akal PANJOTH

  155. n yo raincoaster ur time thing iz rong it sez i sent the message add november 14 buu i sent it on the 14 and add around 7:10 pm nadd 12:09 am iight later

  156. It’s set to Greenwich mean time. And I don’t worry about one blog post falling by the wayside; this isn’t news anymore. I’m still getting a thousand hits a day on the rest of the blog, so there’s plenty to keep me busy.

  157. saafe wadd r ur uder blogz abou ? n do goths beliven god ? n y do goths wair makup wtf lol
    thanx Raincoaster

  158. Do NOT leave six identical comments. You risk annoying me and getting deleted. Also, I cannot for the life of me understand your first question, so use better English if you want an answer.

    Some Goths believe in god, some don’t, and not all of them believe in the same god. Goth’s not a religion, it’s a style.

  159. The people who diss vampirefreaks are being discriminatory. Just because there was one bad apple doesn’t mean you throw out the whole bucket. Give us who are on vampirefeaks freedom to roam the sight. I dont see any reason at all to shut it down. I’ve been on the sight since i was 14 for fucks sake. I dont see a problem with it.
    As for gill, I agree with a majority he has said. Then again thats just me and my openion.

  160. Who’s talking about shutting it down? That was months ago. I think most people are over that now.

    What, exactly, did Gill say that you agreed with? Most of his blog was things like “whoooo, Jack Daniels is great. I love playing Columbine!” He was afraid someone was reading it (which they weren’t competent to do, actually) so he didn’t put down his deepest thoughts.

    On Trench’s site he posted that every single person who said in a blog they were going to shoot up a school was lying. Obviously that’s not true, as five minutes at the Trenchcoat Chronicles will show you. He was wrong about a lot of things, including the idea he looked good in a mohawk.

  161. I can say one thing, took a long time for me to shut down vampirefreak user log in Trench. Someone keeps making him back onto the system. Even know as I speak its still there but its better now, there is no pictures involved. I can’t b;ame vampirefreak, they donated money to dawson itself, but it took them long to block the account trench from coming back, not even know is it cleared but at least there is no pictures of him at all

  162. Well it’s not something you’d expect people to do, keep resurrecting the account of a dead man. That is indeed creepy, but if someone is doing it that person is either quite good at computers or an admin or something for VampireFreaks. Weird. Thanks for letting me know.

  163. raincoaster, do you think that a cultural factor (ethnic issues) stimulated his actions, or did it have to do with his psyche?

  164. He was by all reports pretty divorced from his ethnic roots and identified more with a violent Goth subculture (the Trenchcoaters) than with any other group. Montreal’s not a very racist city, far from it, and his friends were of many races. There’s also no evidence he was bullied at school; he claimed sympathy with the bullied, but he himself, at something like 6’3″ was left pretty much alone.

    I really do believe that this is a case of someone in acute depression snapping and becoming violent. The man was mentally ill; he was insane.

    I do believe that there are people in the world who are not insane, but who are evil; Willy Pickton is one such man. It’s reassuring to a society to blame all murder on mental illness, because it means that as long as we’re not nuts we are all safe. It’s reassuring, but it’s not true. As the courts have recognized, the majority of murders and horrible crimes are committed not by the insane, who are often unfairly marginalized, but rather by those who were in full possession of their faculties (or who had consented to temporary suspension of control). So I’m the last person on Earth to use that to excuse a murderer. The only reason I say it now is that it’s so obviously true.

    The alcohol binging, the long, slow spiral from a relatively popular, normal kid to a basement-dwelling vengence freak against whom no crimes had been committed, the inability to interact with society in any meaningful way (he was even rather marginalized on Vampire Freaks, because he wasn’t someone people found it easy to connect with) are all flags.

    He should have been in therapy, residential or otherwise, two years before he went to Dawson College.

  165. (in french/ en français): comment une personne aussi fucké de-meme peut vivre sur terre. il trip sur les gun, il veut tuer du monde avec ca pis il se sodomise avec. en plus, il a été dans l’armée pis sest fait renvoyé. Il était la pour une raison: GUN, GUN, GUN! Un fucké qui trip sur des gun. Quand ces collègues dans l’armée avait des photos de leur blonde ou dune membre de famille, lui, ctait des magazines avec des GUN! osti qu’il est loser avec ses photos sur son profil. ct enfant de chienne la, pourquoi il a tué une fille innocente, jaurais aimé la rencontrer, jai 17ans. Hein, fils de pute, pourquoi tu las tué, hein, hein!? tu peux po repondre pcq tes mort! mort mon esti de marde! tes po au paradis jespere! tes en enfer avec satan qui te sodomise eternellement. a chaque coup quil te donne cest comme recevoir une balle de ta criss de carabine beretta cx4 storm dans ton anus, le gun que tavait tiré sur la belle anastasia. si un jour je descends en enfer, jtoublierai po, ma etre avec des amis( kekchose que tas po) pour venir te battre pour l’eternité, mon fucké! MANGE DE LA MARDE, ENFANT DE CHIENNE, MANGE DE LA MARDE!

    (in english): What a real son of a bitch!!!

    * This comment is not goth-bashing, I guarantee it

  166. Pingback: the worst school massacre in American history: not Virginia Tech « raincoaster

  167. waddupppp mann ahaha remmeber me lol. i releee feel sorry for dis gurl who goes to ma scool and gets made fun of cuz shez a goth styll so wadd shud i do bredren?

  168. as the brother of one of the victims i got to say hes a total failure he only killed one and the rest survived. he said that this world is corrupted and that people bully him. he just ruined the lives of me my sister and so many so many other people that it touched and can never be forgiven. so the real bully is him the real asshole that couldnt do nothing of his life so he decided to go kill a beautiful girl and permanatly hurt so many more almost 3 years after the shooting my sister still got problem she cant go to school shes =getting flashback, she wanted to be a psychatrist, she cant cause wath hapened, she got so many difficulties, and this making me so sad this making me so angry nall the anger i got inside me i cant stop thinking about it. Fuking depressed people (emo, goth) just fukin be happy and fukk people who annoy you stop being so different if u really want to be accepted..

  169. I don’t think that crushing people’s individualism is the solution here; perhaps dealing with people’s rage might be a better one. Including your own; is your family in counselling? There are lots of inexpensive options, including church counsellors, available.

  170. october 18 2011 21heure57 Sonia
    Causes more difficult situations and perturbantes can push of adolescents to consider the suicide. The emotions that can lead to an attempt suicide are the same for adults and adolescents. Those who have good redes de apoyo (c. -à-d. Among their family, peers, des associations sportives, social or religious or groups of extracurricular activities) will likely to share their emotions with a person who may help them. un divorce ;
    des abus physiques ou sexuels ;
    un comportement négligent menaçant leur développement affectif ;
    une exposition à des scènes de violence conjugale ;
    l’alcoolisme au foyer ;
    la toxicomanie.
    The ease with which they can to acquire one firearm, of drugs, alcohol or motor vehicle accident is also, for several les adolescents, a serious problem that can be required to the suicide or assist in their project to put an end to their days. En cuanto a los suicides in the whole of the population, one firearm is used in nearly
    30 per cent of cases. More than half of all deaths caused by the use of a firearm are of cases of suicide.
    Signs of alarm and risk factors for the those subjected do not appear just in a sky remains calm : the people usually shows of several signs of alarm when the events appear to go if Lta that it seems to them preferable to abort. Because the adolescence is a period of instability, it may be difficult to distinguish between the signs of a suicide and the sometimes be erratic behaviour and often by changing characteristic of adolescents.
    Bien que plusieurs adolescents suicidaires puissent paraître déprimés ou abattus, d’autres dissimulent leurs problèmes sous une énergie débordante. L’hyperactivité et l’agitation anormale des adolescents peuvent également signaler l’existence d’un problème sous-jacent. Cette agitation peut donner lieu à un comportement agressif ou marqué par la discorde.

    Une faible estime de soi ainsi que des remarques désobligeantes à leur égard constituent des signes encore plus évidents du caractère suicidaire des adolescents. Certains adolescents parlent ouvertement de leurs idées suicidaires ou les expriment par écrit. Ces gestes doivent être pris au sérieux. On ne doit pas les ignorer dans l’espoir qu’il ne s’agit que d’une phase passagère. Toutes les tentatives antérieures de suicide constituent manifestement des appels au secours nécessitant une réaction avant qu’il ne soit trop tard.

  171. 18 to october 2011 I would have wanted to help him(her) has Kimveer Gill because it re-seems to me really just to see its photos it was really sad I aurrais him(her) to talk of this and that for step has to encourage him(it) has not to sink into the despair I was on cétait a garcon kimveer malgrer voucher his(its) jeste it was depressive it wrote his(her,its) despair on the vampirefreaks just to listen to him(it) I was a depressive too javais suicidal idea too jaime not to see sad gengs jy would have say words kind as I like you kimveer no lache not no continnue you is on the maid see of the life 13 september 2006 my a lot touch jens I still speak aujourdhui yavais not need kimveer to make jaime not judge as me after judge think has Mere de Kimveer Gill test(event) which surmounts in moment his(her,its) owe etre really hard for her I am on that parrent its tremendous I give all my sympathy to the parrents and in friends Kimmi ( Kimveer Gill) In tears

  172. sonia_lysa raincoaster Oct 20116heure39
    A weak respect of one as well as derogatory comments in their respect constitute even more obvious signs of the suicidal character of the teenagers. Certain teenagers speak openly about their suicidal ideas or express them written. These gestures must be taken seriously.

  173. The side emotional person is put in lively, everything is upset: the body, the relations, the requirements to him. All changes are difficult to take(set). On the psychological plan, he(it) is impulsive, hypersensitive, susceptible, emotional person, impatient person, he(it) is constantly in imbalance, in state of conflict, he(it) has the impression(printing) to be alone. The group of peers is important for the adolescence. He allows him(her) to confront and to confirm. The group gives him(her) a feeling of membership and no furthermore to be alone. He(it) looks for the popularity, he wants the originality but he needs to be approved by his peers.

    The adolescence is thus an intense period of changes. These changes are normal but make live various degrees of anxiety and anxiety. If the other stressful agents are added, they can precipitate the young person into suicidal behavior.

    The suicidal behavior is only chosen after a series of the other behavior was tried and failed. The behavior

    THE TEENAGER PERSON WITH SUICIDAL TENDENCIES

    The young person with suicidal tendencies often perceives(collects) himself as bad, passive, guilty. He(it) has low(weak) one self-respect and feels indésiré. He(it) has not discovered his(its) value except the established social standards and the pressures exercised on him yet. There is not thus a place(square). He(it) usually has no purpose in the life, does not get involved in the activities where from often of low(weak) school results(profits). He(it) recognizes no control over his(its) environment and is very impulsive. He(it) misses link with his(its) community, what comes along with a feeling of alienation and consequently he(it) tries(feels) no attraction to the company(society) to continue to live.

    Break the isolation which lives the young person and to approach directly the subject of the suicide. To speak about the suicide does not incite to the acting out. On the contrary it allows to break the isolation, to express its sufferings, to make him(her) glimpse the other avenues. Give him(her) the possibility of speaking about things which worry him(it). 26 oct 2011

  174. [] exactly two hours later, Kimveer Gill opened the fire(light) to the entrance(entry) of the middle school Dawson, killing a person and by hurting about twenty the others. By investigating the various registered entrances(entries) to the newspaper, we understand window that the young man feels ill at ease.

    ” Transform this(they) cursed world in cemetery. Crush quite those who block you
    the road. Leave a river of blood in your trail. Cross this river with pride. You are the hero, the real hero. You do not like graves freshly dug. I yes. Humor: Heil, heil, heil (the hitllérien safety(salute)) “, as it is read in an entrance(entry).

    ” I like rifles. Really. It is what what makes us every equals, you do not agree? HAHAHAHA ” throws(launches) somewhere else.

    On January 26th, he writes ” to be locked into an invisible cage(goal) clamped in (the) head. He(it) is not lucky there that I escape from it “.

    At the beginning of February, while he listens to the group Godsmack, he writes that he wants ” to destroy(annul) all the humanity “.

    On February 15th, Kimveer Gill indicates being watched by the policemen. ” The policemen watch me. They think that I do not know him(it). He(it) scrutinize my
    movements in the magnifying glass, he writes. Hey, pigs. You should not claim to be kind Gothic girls while you watch people it is not kind. ”

    On September 4th, at 3:57 am, he(it) describes finally a dream which he(it) made: ” it was bizarre, because normally, I dream about murdered persons, who are made flaps of a ball(bullet) in the head, and things of the kind(genre). Sometimes, these things arrive at me to me, and it is always dark and cold. But there it was different. ”
    ” Stop intimidating. It is not only the fault of taxeurs you know. It is the fault of the teachers and the directors(managers) who close eyes, just because it is their
    work. Sort(species) of poignant bastards. It is the fault of the police that makes nothing when people complain (oops my error, the policemen are corrupt children of whore) Fuck the police. ”

    ” It is the fault of the company(society) that makes as if it was normal for people to act in holes of bottom with the others. The company(society) disgusts me. It is the fault of everybody which makes nothing on the condition that that reaches(affects) them personally. FUCK YOU company(society). ”

    Another day: ” stop(arrest) the intimidation to the school. Stop laughing at the others just because of the clothes which they carry(wear), of their way of being or to speak, or quite other reason. Everything is the fault of jocks (sportsmen). The sportsmen are worth nothing. Then stop(arrest)… O.k.? ”

    September 10th 5:23 am. ” I wonder why my house is watched by the authorities from now on
    This morning I wondered what kind of childhood he(it) had this lad there. We do not become mad alone. His(her,its) family environment? His(her) friends?

    Look at a child, generally they are happy, joyful, cheerful, if they are liked(loved) and if they have all that it is necessary to leave well in the life, that helps. But he, we know nothing for the moment, without he did not love his relatives(parents), but why?
    The years the last 2 paragraphs, we see that he(it) was delirious, or that he(it) was on hard drugs…

    I did not see his father and her mother, but Alexandre Dumas de RC just belonged(belonged) right now in front of the family house to Laval I believe and neighbors spoke, they have some difficulty believing that this young man was able to overturned(collapsed) like that. It is always what we say in such circumstances, we are always surprised.

    It seems to me that it would be rather the opposite…

    An individual who is in touch with the rest of the company(society) will have friends to whom to speak during a bad patch and who can help him(it) to take(bring) out there.

    He(It) will also be more stimulated generally, he(it) will know more activities and domains which could represent a center of interest, a désennui and a point of reference when he(it) will be alone, and in whom(which) he could even exteriorize his negative drives. There is certainly a lot of people who have already thought of the suicide but who are not acted because they turned out to have a pastime or a passion which turned out ” the only thing(matter) which kept(guarded) me alive “. Yes

    Has it it who(which) steep themselves and who say nothing. They keep(guard) their suffering for them and one day, that jumps

    I knew a lad also, he spoke to nobody and everybody believed that that was well. He(it) finished with a blow of 12 in the head.

    It is not everybody who are capable of speaking and of saying what they feel.

    Then yen has who(which) it make not écoerer and who(which) it contains they meme…

    It is hard quesqui has knowledge it is crossed(spent) in its tete and in its life to come there there….

    I saw a Gothic / punk has in the morning on the trotoir when I was in automobile and the 1st reaction which my past by the tete ” Gang of est* of room ” and I owes not etre the only one has to have this premiere reaction there it is little – etre not the maid reaction has credit note, but it is clear that this type(chap) of perosnne goes etre judged even more severely continuation(suite) has this event it’s a pity but these the life.

  175. Oct 26, 2011
    I am still spirit of lira on the site… I does not still understand why this lad has make his(her,its). Neither the reason and nor why this lad, who did not look an etre somebody nasty. Why music groups has fun t-il has to say that the life it is some shit or things(tricks) of the kind(genre) to incite their listener(auditor) has to believe in it. Especially, why it are legal to make his(her,its)! I know well that we have our rights and everything but I find that he(she,it) exceed the limits. He spoke with the world on the clear(net) and some seemed to estimate(appreciate) him(it) but has t-il not to think that he would have been able to kill one of had and it without any reason. This lad has her(it) I make her(its) on a blow of tete believes that meme was not aware(conscious) him(her) of évenements and a lad who prepares such a blow would not be go on a forum to chatter about if the hour has punishment(effort)!

    At the beginning I said myself ‘ Why he(it) is not to stay alive so that the world spits him(her) above ‘ but finally I would just have wanted that it consults a shrink and that it did not make

  176. 8novem2011
    Another is involved in controversy nait. This one concerns the death of Anastasia de Sousa, person killed of new swing in the body. According to a witness(baton), these balls(bullets) would not result from weapons of Kimveer Gill, but from those of the police. Indeed, during the assault of law enforcement, Kimveer Gill would have used the young woman as human shield, to protect itself from shootings(firings).

  177. 1981 uillet: birth of Kimveer Gill
    September 13th, 2006:
    12:42 am: Kimveer Gill enters the Middle school(College) and opens the fire(light)
    12:44 am: the police arrives on the spot
    1:10 pm: the police intervenes in the cafeteria and Kimveer Gill commits suicide after an exchange of shot
    5:52 pm: the police announces the death of a 18-year-old young woman, Anastasia de Sousa
    A little bit before midnight: the identity of the crazy marksman is revealed
    In September 16th, 2006: publication of Jan Wong’s article accusing the Quebecois social climate
    In September 18th, 2006: reopening of the doors of the Middle school Dawson
    In September 19th, 2006: burial of Anastasia de Sousa and Kimveer Gill.

  178. More than a dozen hours after the intervention dramatic which certain witnesses(batons) qualified as “police blunder”, several questions lived without answer as for the exact sequence of the events. According to the official version of the authorities, the policemen were called to make at about 6:40 am on the street saint-Catherine Est, near the intersection of the street Saint-Elisabeth, to check(control) a man disemboweling bags filled(performed) with garbage by means of a cutting weapon.
    ” The man in question also caused misdeeds on parked vehicles, indicated
    sergeant Claude Denis, spokesman of the safety of Quebec. From the beginning, the man was seen in possession of a cutting weapon. ”
    Face known well in the sector, Mario Hamel, an itinerant of 40 years roared and scattered waste almost everywhere on the public highway when the policemen arrived on the scene.

  179. What Kimveer Gill did was really fucked up and fucking terrible. I hope he went to hell. Which he probally did. Fuck him! You don’t post something like- FUCK THE POLICE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!- you don’t! I know i’m a goth and a vampire probally. But I am only 10 years of age so. That’s really all I had to say. But to let you all know Vampires are real. And when I get to Hell i’m going to kill Kimveer. I am a Energy Medium (A.K.A a early age person that is different than others. We also need something to eat but Human food dosen’t suit out appitite.) Here’s a fact Vampires drink blood —— its also a charichteristic! If you need more information on a Energy Medium vampire go to: bylightunseen.net/preditor.htm! Go to “Real Vampires And The Vampire Community” then click on “Energy Mediums”. (P.S. I’m using my mom’s facebook for this!

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