Yes, it’s a new flamewar on Facebook, this time over the question of whether the existence of a theistic god is central to Christianity or not! It happened on the wall of a friend who had nothing to do with subsequent events, so I’ll leave him out of this. The initial post was about an atheist’s ability to have a civilized conversation with an open-minded Christian minister. And my initial question wasn’t snarky, just curious.
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Stephanie Louise Fisher I’m sure any honest person is specially equipped to get on famously with another honest person regardless of their view on life, the universe and everything. I don’t see how being an atheist makes any difference. I wouldn’t get on with the pope but then I think he’s a dishonest hypocrite, but I do have two friends who just happen to be priests but they’re both environmentalists and very left wing so we get on famously. Their religious ideas also are evolved and don’t include the supernatural. -
Lorraine Murphy How can religious ideas not include the supernatural? -
Stephanie Louise Fisher MOdern Christians of the enlightenment do not believe in supernatural beings or events but understand things from the perspective of history, allegory and metaphor. Not all modern Christians are biblical literalists or fundamentalists as seems to be predominant in American Christianity. Liberal Christians are often accused of ‘cherry picking’ – that is, they advocate gay marriage, abortion and other things, but if that’s modern religion that’s fine by me.
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Lorraine Murphy But isn’t God a supernatural being? Isn’t Jesus? Angels?
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Stephanie Louise Fisher Jesus isn’t a supernatural being. Not the historical person underneath the story telling projected by later Christians such as the ‘god man’ of Paul and the late gospel of John. Not all Christians believe in a ‘person’ god being. The name ‘god’ is a word that can be used in many ways, such as universal ‘Love’, ‘goodness’ and so on.
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Lorraine Murphy So you’re saying there are Christian ministers who do not believe in God as a theistic being, but rather as a monistic concept? Are you sure about that?
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Stephanie Louise Fisher Yes I am and of course I am.
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Lorraine Murphy Which branch of Christianity is that?
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Stephanie Louise Fisher Methodist, catholic and progressive Anglicanism.
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Lorraine Murphy Really? That’s odd, because the Anglican and Catholic theologians I know believe in the literal existence of God as a theistic being.
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Stephanie Louise Fisher actually most mainstream denominations are capable of evolving and not being stuck in the middle ages as are a lot of modern atheists’ views of religion are.
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Stephanie Louise Fisher Lloyd Geering has published many books. He is a Presbyterian theologian who does not believe in ‘god’. google him.
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Lorraine Murphy Yes, but that’s not the question here. The fundamental question is: whether or not a belief in the existence of God as a theistic being is central to Christian doctrine. You’re saying it’s not. I’m saying that as far as I am aware, it is.
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Lorraine Murphy I only know one Presbyterian minister, but he does believe in God. Let us say, then, that it is at best not a settled question.
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Stephanie Louise Fisher central to historical belief of course.
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Lorraine Murphy I’m thinking this was at least three chapters in the Screwtape Letters. If only my copy weren’t packed away.
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Stephanie Louise Fisher as a historian my specialist area is religion and I study ancient and modern beliefs and visit religious communities.
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Stephanie Louise Fisher outdated cs lewis.
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Stephanie Louise Fisher It is now 2013…
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Lorraine Murphy And I have studied comparative folklore and religion at university, and lived with a pro-gay-marriage Anglican minister and a Catholic theologian whose specialty was feminism in the early church. Are we seriously comparing resumes here? If the issue was discussed in the Screwtape Letters (which apparently you haven’t read) then the issue was alive even then. And we are talking about a religion with a history going back two thousand years. Baby and bathwater and all of that. The fact that an issue was discussed in the 1940’s does not mean it is irrelevant in 2013.
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Stephanie Louise Fisher I see, you are American. You don’t have the same exposure to evolved thinking where you are.
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Lorraine Murphy I see you are not much of a researcher, but you are a bigot.
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Stephanie Louise Fisher It is historically relevant. there is a difference.
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Lorraine Murphy I see you are still not much of a researcher.
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Stephanie Louise Fisher so how many phd theses have you written. silly insults.
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Lorraine Murphy “I see, you are American. You don’t have the same exposure to evolved thinking where you are.” Where do you live, Mount Olympus?
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Lorraine Murphy Did you put emojis in your thesis?
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Lou Willie this is waht fb is made for
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Stephanie Louise Fisher I’m going out now to hug a tree, swim in the sea and watch the sun set over the horizon. be happy Lorraine.
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Lorraine Murphy I am happy. Now.
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Stephanie Louise Fisher very apt, Lou.
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Lou Willie oh and i’m from alabama. you’re both wrong cause jesus and muhrica!!!
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Lorraine Murphy Word up.
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raincoaster 
This almost makes me miss Facebook. Almost.
Although she IS an arrogant, conceited bigot (and an illiterate one), it’s still one of the best discussions about religion that I’ve had in ages.
She claims to possess a higher degree in religion. That seems highly unlikely. I like the American comment…You should make round two a disputation on the exegesis of Canadian Thanksgiving.
Hope you have a happy one, BTW…
Tempting!
What an insult to call you an American – given the Tea Bagger cry babies in charge down here now – I have no idea what you were arguing about – but that told me that she had lost all credibility at that point
So does this prove or disapprove the theory that we really have an advanced civilization?
Well, it proves that things have really gone to hell on Mount OIympus recently.
I’m just evil enough to have seen that remark and felt great joy; for her to reach so far, swing so blindly, and say something so offensive on the wall of an American, well, it was basically her handing me the victory. She knew it too; look what happened to her punctuation after that.
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Nice… you might get a laugh out of the comment section to this post. Plus, I might get an extra hit on a blog I think I abandoned a few months ago, so it’s a win win for everyone involved — LETS DO THIS!
http://culturalsnafu.wordpress.com/2007/03/12/canadian-inventions-pacemaker/
Ha! You’re on!
If this is any help…
There are lots of enlightened folks who just can’t let go of the perks of having a church or “church” (tax breaks, a public meeting place, etc.). Witness how something as avaricious as Scientology can take advantage of being a “church”. In many countries, an official state church gets lotsa subsidies from the state. Then there’s the social standing of being clergy.
But then the intellectual embarrassment of ancient theology to justify one’s existence gets in the way sometimes. Many smart people have figured ways around this, simply calling “God” the unknown good thing. Never tried to understand the fine points of it myself, but it’s out there.
Yes, but they shouldn’t be priests.